cold barrel shot
I have a Savage 116 FSS in 30/06. It is a fine shooting gun AFTER the first shot. On a cold barrel, the colder the higher, the first short at 100 yds. will be anywhere from 3-8 inches higher than it should be. After the first shot the group comes right down to where it should be. ( 2.5-3 in high at 100 yds.-it is sighted in for 200 yds ) I have sent it back to savage once but they failed to cool the gun off enough and declared that nothing was wrong with it. I test fired it several times this fall and saved the targets. I sent it back to Savage for the last time this mornong. Any suggestions as to what is wrong?
0
-
Naval gunfire always corrects the first shot, as it is high. Nature of the beast (barrel microscopically swelling under heat). There is correction cranked into (I think) the first three shots*.
You have a good gun there, if truth be known! Best, Joe
*Info from my uncle-GMG1 USS Wisconsin, WWII0 -
The barrel has Stresses that warp with temperature changes . I suspect the bore does not go down the centerline of the barrel. There are people that can remove these stress point by Deep freezeing barrel in Liquid Nitrogen I forget how it's spelled " Cryrogentics" I would have never sent it back the second time. [:(] 0 -
if this is a hunting rifle i can tell you what i did with a weatherby i had. i shot the rifle 1 shot every couple of hours until zero was complete with a cold barrel. 0 -
Not uncommon but 8in I would find excessive and 3 to 8 seems like a big spread. I will accept a 1 to 2 in in a gun I build with dead on 1st shot cold. Is the barrel free floated? Have you tried a different weight bullet. On a deer rifle I shoot one shot...wait....reshoot.
Every caliber/rifle has a particular bullet weight that it handles well, above and below that weight it will shoot not quite as well. Add to this barrel expansion with a weight not quite perfect and your rifle will perform less than perfect.0 -
mike look,
This is the description of your rifle from the Savage Arms website:
Weather Warrior Series
Model 116FSS - with AccuTriggerT
Action: Long
Caliber: .270 Win, 30-06 Spfld
Overall Length: 42.5"
Barrel Length: 22"
Weight: 6.5 lbs.
Magazine Capacity: 4 rounds
Stock: Black synthetic with positive checkering, dual pillar bedding
Sights: Drilled and tapped for scope mounts
Rifling Rate of Twist: 1 in 10"
Features:
AccuTriggerTM,
stainless barreled action,
free-floating and button-rifled barrel,
internal box magazine,
and swivel studs.
Suggested Retail: $678.00
Trying to diagnose rifle problems over the internet is difficult at best because we can't handle them and see where the potential problems might exist. I have underlined and used bold text to make note of two things; the free floated barrel and the dual pillars.
Let me first make note of the fact that Savage Arms has made great headway in the field of less expensive but accurate factory rifles in general. Not every rifle produced is perfect or even close to it but the vast majority are suitable for hunting and general purpose shooting. Their line of target rifle have impressed most of our members who will then generalize that Savage rifles are the best choice for accuracy and price. I respect their opinions.
Yes there is something wrong with your rifle or the way it's being shot.
As to your problems with your rifle specifically, you have a bad barrel and I don't care what Savage says. They are trying to protect themselves from the liability of replacing thousands of rifle barrels because of improper manufacturing. If they were smart, they would just replace your barrel and say nothing about it other than they resolved the problem. But they obviously missed that part of the class.
Barrels made by button rifling create the most stress in barrel steel. However, by proper heat treatment, these stresses can be minimized and can be excellent barrels for general purpose as well as target shooting. Reference Shilen's run on benchrest titles for a number of years. Your barrel is NOT behaving properly and needs to be replaced, if not by the factory then by you.
Pillar bedding is exactly what it sounds like, the action is tightened against two aluminum pillars in an effort to provide consistency. However, if those pillars are NOT precisely placed and secured, they are merely advertising verbiage and essentially useless. Pillars, in and of their own existence, are good but to achieve the greatest benefit you really need to bed the action inlet onto those pillars. The idea is to create an exact position of the action to seat into that does not create stress when the action screws are tightened. Know also that the action screws need to be tightened correctly. Yes, there is a specification for the proper number of inch/pounds for tightening action screws.
I suggest that when Savage returns your rifle without fixing it that you make a trip to or send it to a qualified gunsmith and have it gone over carefully. This gunsmith needs to be aware of the design and function of Savage rifles in particular since they are not like most other rifles by design.
Good Luck!
Best.0 -
mike look,
A lot of times precision shooters go out and zero with a cold bore to see what the difference is between how it shoots cold and hot. Many barrels will show a slight difference. Like 1 to 1 1/2" @ 100 yards at most. 3"-8" is not acceptable. Not by any stretch of anyones imagination. Not light or heavy barrel.
As nn noted what you have is a standard weight barrel too. They don't tend to hold the same zero after being shot a few times. Certainly not as well as a quality heavy barrel. Along that same line I'm one of the worst offenders for giving Savage the thumbs up for across the board accuracy. When in truth I'm really referring to their heavy barreled enhanced stock rifles intended for precision shooting of some sort. I really like them. But, I've also run across older model 10's and 11's and their counterpart long actions, 110, 111, and 116's that shot between 1 to 3 MOA. Still as you can see that only approaches the bottom end of your discrepancy.
I would personally call Savage and tell them what your problem is and that they need to get it resolved or tell you why it's acceptable. The answer you got, that, "there isn't any problem" needs to be defined down to what they did to determine that. You can counter back with your issue that it is the first 'cold bore shot' from the rifle that does that. A letter in a case like this always helps too. Once it's in writing they will act. Because the next one goes to someone who will act on your behalf and that gets expensive quickly for them.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
Nothing is wrong.
That's the way many guns are. The barrels swell when they get warm, and it is all part of the plan.
Thanks, but I am quite sure that guns are not supposed to behave like this.0 -
First shot out of a clean barrel is usually out of the group too. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by mike look
quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
Nothing is wrong.
That's the way many guns are. The barrels swell when they get warm, and it is all part of the plan.
Thanks, but I am quite sure that guns are not supposed to behave like this.
Mike
There is a reason that match shooters fire several "sighters" before they get serious, and a reason that hunters zero their rifles for the first "cold barrel" shot.
How much of a change between the first and second shot is also a concern to hunters.
I know that my custom hunting rifle, with it's heavy Shilen barrel, will put the first round of a cold barrel string to point of aim, the second shot will be 1/2 MOA high-left and the 3rd shot 1 MOA high-left, and that the following shots will group 1 1/4 MOA high-left (you can cover the next 5 holes with a nickle at 200yd). This dosn't bother me because A) it does it every time, and
the first (and for hunting the most important) shot will be exactly where I aimed it. If I was using this rifle for paper killing only, than I'd re-zero the scope for the warm barrel group location and not worry about the first 3 rounds.0
Please sign in to leave a comment.
Comments
9 comments