Recoil Spring Life & Replacement
This is a serious question for 'experts' - persons who really know. What kind of wear matters for springs? We hear about recoil springs, mag springs, etc that should be periodically replaced - but - WHY?
Car suspension springs don't wear out these days, car valve springs don't wear out and I work on guns made in the 1700s that still have good springs. I have a number of Colt pre-1911 autos, some showing heavy use that have recoil springs that have no visible signs of wear. They seem to have about the same strength. I would really appreciate scientific, experiential, practical or other rationale on this subject. Thanks
edit There should be some info on record of military or other test-to-failures that would cover the subject.
Car suspension springs don't wear out these days, car valve springs don't wear out and I work on guns made in the 1700s that still have good springs. I have a number of Colt pre-1911 autos, some showing heavy use that have recoil springs that have no visible signs of wear. They seem to have about the same strength. I would really appreciate scientific, experiential, practical or other rationale on this subject. Thanks
edit There should be some info on record of military or other test-to-failures that would cover the subject.
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Cyclic fatigue and creep is a phenomenon that occurrs in all steel elements (springs too) subjected to repetetive compressive, tensile, flexural, torsional, etc. stresses. You mentioned wear which is an obvious x-section failure and can be seen on the spring itself. Any x-sectional loss can weaken the spring. This fatigue can not be seen but weakens the element as well. It can only be determined with specific testing instruments. The car springs you referred to are weakening with each load cycle though still doing their job. This is within the springs design parameter. It only is obvious when the spring quits doing it's job for no apparent reason that we see this creeping effect. The gun designers have probably consulted with the spring manufacturers, who have tested their product, and offerred the advice of periodic replacement to assure the spring is providing a certain level of performance. 0 -
rhmc24,
While we're waiting for the other members to find their notes and references, I'll pass along my simple thought as to why we all change out our springs as frequently as we do.
Fear of failure.
I'm not a pistol competitor but I do carry a pistol every day and I practice every week, well most weeks... I break down my 1911 and look at every part then change out my recoil spring once a year whether it needs it or not. This is an established routine which prevents most failures. I should add that I also clean the pistol after every outing as well. Magazine springs in the 4 mags I carry get changed every other year. All springs get saved and marked in separate packages as to service time and dates used/removed.
The antithesis of this is that I shoot Mausers which have the original factory firing pin springs in them from the turn of the century. I've cleaned out the bolt and used a modern lubricant but the original spring is still used.
The difference is that I might have to use the pistol to defend myself and it has to be perfect each and every time. I'm not willing to take a chance so I change out the springs probably all too frequently. I think many of us fall into the same category.
Best.0 -
I SERVICE QUITE A FEW AUTO RIFLES (BAR'S, 7400'S, 742'S, ECT.) I KEEP NEW RECOIL SPRINGS ON HAND FOR THESE. WHEN THE ORIGINAL SPRING BECOMES 1" SHORTER THAN A NEW ONE I REPLACE IT (8-10%). I'VE SEEN M-1 GARAND SPRINGS SO WORN THAT, IF CUT, THE CROSS SECTION WOULD BE A SEMI-OVAL RATHER THAN ROUND. 0 -
Hello I might be going against many people's opinion But I feel I must state my experience. I shoot the 1911 in competition but I have also shot High Standard 22 pistols Hammerli 22 Pistols as well as S&W model 41's and Kart conversions as well as Marval conversions. This along with many brands of Rifles and shot guns . I am using a 1911 45 ACP that has over 300,000 rounds through it after I changed to the correct Wolff recoil spring to match my load. It also has the same mainspring . so I would say if this was the only gun I had then I would see no reason to ever change coil springs . I also have 4 aftermarket magazines that go with this pistol that have had the same springs for 30+ years however I only load 5 rounds in these mags but they stay loaded sometimes as long as 6 months at a time. so far my opinion again no reason to change springs. [^] the same thing holds true for the most part with S&W model 41's and most High Standards as well as the Kart conversion. [^]Now the Bad news My Hammerli 208S a $2000.00 pistol and Marval conversion units have had nothing but spring trouble . if you measure oal of the hammer spring on this pistol and compare after sometimes as few as 5000 rounds you will see the spring is much shorter and will cause misfires[:(!] The recoil spring on this pistol will also get shorter the same thing happens to the Marval. [V] Until you change them out with Wolff springs then they seem to work forever. What I have learned is you need to check springs against new ones and if they stay the same length they are properly made and good to go[:)] However if by poor material or over stressed they get shorter then they need replacing. "PRAISE THE HARD-BALL GUN" 0 -
Thanks for your thoughtful replies.
Seems if of the proper material and properly mfgr and heat treated it will probably have life infinite in terms of likely use. Car valve springs seem to bear this out in that they cycle 1000 or more times per minute.
Not to extend this indefinitely -- I would offer the further thought about 'infant mortality' in manufactured and disturbed products. In airline aviation where I enjoyed 37 years it was established that the life cycle of anything made by man, including those exiting overhaul, had a failure curve in which failures peak very soon after being put in service, then decline, level off to flat for duration of service life - the end of which a peak-up is wear out. The service life of all aircraft components, engines, pumps, electronics, etc. is based on that.0 -
I still carry my Glock 30 from 1997 and have well over 7,000 rnds through it and still have the original recoil spring in it. 0 -
Recoil springs do wear out if a pistol has been used over a long period of time. Couple of years ago I bought a High Stand Sport King that was made in 1952. The recoils spring was so bent and warped that the pistol would only function with the heaviest loaded .22's. When I removed the spring from the slide to install a new Wolff, I couldn't believe the condition it was in. From the condition of the spring and blue wear on the pistol it must have had many thousands and thousands of rounds through it between 1952 and 2007. 0 -
Can only attest for mag springs..true story.
I put my S&W 645 , loaded and spare mag in my locker sometime in 1985. Never touched it again.
In summer of 08, as I was preparing for retirement, I used it with others for qualifications and that 645 ran thru both mags and at least two more reloads each without failure. The whole time I expected an ammo failure but that didnt happen either w/Fed 230 ball.
Just sayin0 -
Whatever did we do before Wolff gun springs? Why, it seems springs hardly ever wore out back then!
Many newer guns and magazines are not properly designed-ruining springs by over stressing them.
I have conventional magazines that have been loaded for 30 years with no problem.0 -
Amen!!! 0
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