.380 self defense rounds
over at BuffaloBore, they recommend a jhp followed by jacketed flat tops in the mag. If i'm reading right, the jhp yields .55 after expansion and 10" penetration. The flat tops have 20" penetration.
if you carry with the mindset that .380's will take multiple shots to neutralize the threat (I do), then why not carry all jhp?
does anyone load different ammo in the mag of their carry gun? Is it just for the smaller calibers, or for all calibers?
right now i'm carrying .380 hornady CD and thought that was as good as it gets, until now.
thanks
tom
EDIT #1
Bean, i DO feel that it will take multiple shots with any caliber, and I train that way any gun/cal i carry (9mm,.40,.45) not just .380. but I think its especially needed with the smaller rounds.
had a guy in the ER last year with a .32 in the head, shoulder and abdomen. he walked into the hospital.
as far as different types of ammo, nobody thinks it's silly loading different ammo in a home defense 12 gauge, right? so, jhp's and soft tips or fmj together doesn't sound so strange to me.
quote:.380 hornady CD and thought that was as good as it gets,
for .380 ammo.[:)]
http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=129
if you carry with the mindset that .380's will take multiple shots to neutralize the threat (I do), then why not carry all jhp?
does anyone load different ammo in the mag of their carry gun? Is it just for the smaller calibers, or for all calibers?
right now i'm carrying .380 hornady CD and thought that was as good as it gets, until now.
thanks
tom
EDIT #1
Bean, i DO feel that it will take multiple shots with any caliber, and I train that way any gun/cal i carry (9mm,.40,.45) not just .380. but I think its especially needed with the smaller rounds.
had a guy in the ER last year with a .32 in the head, shoulder and abdomen. he walked into the hospital.
as far as different types of ammo, nobody thinks it's silly loading different ammo in a home defense 12 gauge, right? so, jhp's and soft tips or fmj together doesn't sound so strange to me.
quote:.380 hornady CD and thought that was as good as it gets,
for .380 ammo.[:)]
http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=129
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I like the Glaser Safty rounds.
My 2 cents [8D]0 -
quote:Originally posted by tplumeri
over at BuffaloBore, they recommend a jhp followed by jacketed flat tops in the mag. If i'm reading right, the jhp yields .55 after expansion and 10" penetration. The flat tops have 20" penetration.
if you carry with the mindset that .380's will take multiple shots to neutralize the threat (I do), then why not carry all jhp?
Then carry all JHP.
(Incidentally, you should always assume that ANY pistol will take multiple hits to stop an attacker, even ones with the magical ".4" at the beginning of their caliber).
I think Buffalobore makes good ammo, but I don't think that necessarily qualifies the author of that bit as an expert in terminal ballistics.
FWIW, some big formal study (I think it was FBI, can't remember) suggested a minimum of 12" penetration in ballistic gelatin for a defensive load.
With a relatively low-energy/light bullet load like a .380, there is probably something to be said about carrying simple ball ammunition. It will be most reliable through most guns, and will likely offer the best penetration.
quote:does anyone load different ammo in the mag of their carry gun? Is it just for the smaller calibers, or for all calibers?
You mean multiple TYPES of ammo in the same magazine?
The only time I've ever done that to my knowledge was when coming back carrying from the range after using up most, but not all of my proper "defensive" ammo in practice. (And I stacked the "good" ammo on top).
I can imagine loading up one chamber in your revolver with shot, if you are in a place where snakes might pose a threat. As above, I can see mixing ammo types if for whatever reason you don't have enough of the "good" kind to fill up your magazine.
But doing it on purpose for a defensive auto? I don't really see the point. Given the choice, why would you NOT want to use only your best ammo?
quote:right now i'm carrying .380 hornady CD and thought that was as good as it gets, until now.
I don't think ANY .380 is going to be "as good as it gets", but given the constraints of the caliber, that choice is probably reasonably good. Buffalo Bore (and one or two other companies like "Double Tap") load up their ammo to max specs, then charge you an arm and a leg for the rounds. Worth considering, I suppose.0 -
Check out the new Hornady Critical Defense .380 loads with the FTX polymer tipped bullets. 0 -
I use Santa Barbara +P because I have a lot of it.
It gives 945FPS out of a Keltec.
Bullets are conical flat point having exposed lead flush with the jackets.
I expect these bullets wont expand much so penetration should be good.
Some studies don't consider the 380 for self defense as it doesn't meet the 12 penetration criterion.0 -
If you really want both rounds, I wouldn't load every other round, I'd probably load one in one mag and another in the backup mag. Or if you don't carry a backup mag. then load one half with one round then the other with the other. Load the HP first, is how I'd do it.
Personally, I'd just load one type, and go with the hollow points.0 -
quote:Originally posted by tplumeri
EDIT #1
Bean, i DO feel that it will take multiple shots with any caliber, and I train that way any gun/cal i carry (9mm,.40,.45) not just .380. but I think its especially needed with the smaller rounds.
No argument there.
quote:
had a guy in the ER last year with a .32 in the head, shoulder and abdomen. he walked into the hospital.
I don't find that surprising in the slightest (and its why I always maintain that the .32 is an obsolete round, by the way). .32 is simply an anemic round. . .though depending on where/how they hit, there is no guarantee that a .44 magnum would have killed this guy either.
Statistically the majority (over 50%) of individuals who are shot with handguns survive. As weapons, handguns simply aren't all that powerful.
I've posted on this before, but I've seen a guy shot literally point blank in the head with a 9mm luger end up with with nothing but a minor flesh wound. Bullet hit his skull at a shallow angle, then tracked around under the skin and soft tissue of his head to lodge in the back of his neck. Not only did he walk out of the hospital, he did so without any signficant surgery, and only a short period of time later.
On the other hand, I've also seen a guy in the morgue fatally shot in the head with a single .22 short. Bullet placement counts. . .and so does luck of the draw.
If Mr. .22 had turned his head slightly to one side, he'd probably still be alive, and if Mr. 9mm had turned his head slightly the other way, he'd probably have dropped dead on the spot.
quote:
as far as different types of ammo, nobody thinks it's silly loading different ammo in a home defense 12 gauge, right?
I wouldn't use the word "silly", since I don't know your explanation, but I can't really think of a good reason to do this. What's wrong with just picking the best round for your "mission" and loading up with that only?
Why (for example) would overpenetration be a concern with your third round, but not your first? Six rounds of 00 buckshot not enough for you, so you need a slug to finish off with? [:o)]
I might see having a couple of slug rounds handy near your home defense shotgun, if you think you might have to take a long shot (eg you're in a rural area), but that's a bit of a different thing.
quote:
so, jhp's and soft tips or fmj together doesn't sound so strange to me.
Why not load seven different rounds in your gun?
That way at least one of them will be the "right" one. [}:)]
Assuming you GET to shoot seven. . .assuming you CONNECT with all seven. . .assuming that ANY of them hit the right spot, etc.
A bit more seriously, my view is that people spend WAY too much time worrying about this.
Withing any given caliber, where you put the shot and the luck of the draw are likely going to be more important. . .FAR more important. . .than the exact bullet type. I say forget trying to figure out which round is "the best". . .that's unknowable. Just pick a round for your gun that is at least "very good", that cycles your gun reliably, and stick with it.0 -
First and foremost, does the ammo work reliably in the gun? That is question #1 IMO. With today's JHP ammo, there are several that will work many times better than the old standbys. I use Winchester (Ranger, I believe) JHP in mine, because that is what we are given to use. Golden Saber, Crtitcal Defense, Cor-Bon, Glasers, they all will handle the job if you do your part and put the shot(s) where it(they) count.
I would not use FMJ's in any pistol/revolver for defense under any circumstances unless a) that was all I had and had no chance of loading a better defenseive round, or b) that is all that would work in the gun and I didn;t have access to another weapon. They just ain't a made to stop crooks, they're made to comply with military rules of war. I have seen lots and lots of shootings in 19+ years of LE, and FMJ bullets are not a great choice when a fast stop to a fight and a safe escape from the conflict is the goal.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Riomouse911
First and foremost, does the ammo work reliably in the gun? That is question #1 IMO. With today's JHP ammo, there are several that will work many times better than the old standbys. I use Winchester (Ranger, I believe) JHP in mine, because that is what we are given to use. Golden Saber, Crtitcal Defense, Cor-Bon, Glasers, they all will handle the job if you do your part and put the shot(s) where it(they) count.
I would not use FMJ's in any pistol/revolver for defense under any circumstances unless a) that was all I had and had no chance of loading a better defenseive round, or b) that is all that would work in the gun and I didn;t have access to another weapon. They just ain't a made to stop crooks, they're made to comply with military rules of war. I have seen lots and lots of shootings in 19+ years of LE, and FMJ bullets are not a great choice when a fast stop to a fight and a safe escape from the conflict is the goal.
Keep in mind that some laws ban the use of hollow point ammo for self defense. NJ comes to mind.0 -
Buffulo bore, Corbon hardball, remington golden saber, Magsafe specialty ammo, hornaby critical defense, winchester white box. 0 -
keith,
thats only 6 rounds, what should i load in the chamber?[:D]
bean, i think youre right, we do worry about it too much. but the multiple 12 gauge loads seems to be very popular on the various gun forums. I'm not trying to argue for or against doing it (12 gauge or pistol rounds)but BuffaloBore's comments sound logical. just wanting to know what others thought (thanks!). my biggest concern with .380hp is getting thru heavy clothes and still performing as expected. the new hornady CD and the new winchester SD rounds are supposed to have solved that problem, but who knows.
not wanting to mix up some gel, maybe i'll use wet phone books thru a few layers of heavy denim and see what the performance is.
too bad this thread has to close.......
tom0
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