evaluating a used lathe
I've been thinking about the idea of getting a lathe to do some of my own gunsmithing. But I'll freely admit I know nothing about using or buying one but am interested in learning and experimenting. It would primarily be for AR15 barrels (initially for threading and recontouring/reprofiling) but with the intent to handle most barrel related work (26" barrel length or less). I've been cruising the classifieds and came across this one.
What kind of accessories or basic tooling do I need to do barrel related of work? Does this have everything I need? Are there certains tools I should specifically inquire about?
South Bend Lathe 9"x 48"
Nice working
9" OD swing
48" Bed
3jaw chuck, 2 sets of jaws
Live center
Dead center
Drill chuck
Complete set of threading gears
Table with work light
Runs on 120V
What kind of accessories or basic tooling do I need to do barrel related of work? Does this have everything I need? Are there certains tools I should specifically inquire about?
South Bend Lathe 9"x 48"
Nice working
9" OD swing
48" Bed
3jaw chuck, 2 sets of jaws
Live center
Dead center
Drill chuck
Complete set of threading gears
Table with work light
Runs on 120V
0
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Off the top of my head - -- I went thru the lathe thing starting in the 1960s and finally got what does all I need to do. Hollow spindle big enough to put a barrel thru, quick gear change, 36" between centers, 2 jaw and 4 jaw chucks. A tool post grinder is useful for fine work like reamers, likewise a milling attachment. Nothing wrong with buying what you can find/afford and work up to something better as your skills and needs mature. I now have a Logan made 1954. Been there - done that.
Edit Perry is right about VoTech or whatever training you can get for hands on experience, South Bend is a good make small lathe. If you buy a used lathe a simple check of the lead screw can tell something about it. If the teeth are sharp near the headstock where the carriage runs it indicates a lot of use of the lathe, compare with the teeth at the tail of the bed. There are a lot of more serious things that can happen to a lathe but difficult to explain here. I started with a worn out Atlas for $50, overhauled it, got a South Bend and finally my Logan for $700 in 1974. Lathes are a learning experience same as with working on guns.0 -
The head stock "the part the 3 & 4 jaw chuck mounts on must have a hole big enough to allow the largest barrel in diameter to pass through it . Most 9 inch are much too small except for maybe a 22 rimfire. the bed close to the head stock as well as the feed screw will wear at this point first . you will need to check for wear. Most 3 jaw chucks are not accurat enough to do the best type of barrel work. I suggest a 3 jaw chuck that you can adjust run out. tooling from M.S.C. or other catalogs . also quick change tool post holders are great as well as insert type cutting bits. See if there is a Voc. Tech school with night courses I used up about $1000.00 of tooling even learning the most basic of skills. If you think you can spend money on gun parts just wait until you get a MSC catalog [:p][:0][:I]
EDIT YOU can buy a three jaw chuck that allows you with opposing screws adjust the chuck in relationship to the threaded HEAD STOCK. IMHO well worth the price from M.S.C. if you are doing gun barrel work.0 -
I would pass on the South Bend lathe. For the work you want to do you probably should go with a gear lathe, and not a belt driven lathe like the South Bend.
For what you want to do, these lathes are what I would be looking at.
CLAUSING COLCHESTER
Clausing
Leblond
Check this website out http://www.machinetools.com/us
I think these would be the "starter" must haves.
13 or 14" swing
36-48" length (remember, you lose some of that length with the tail stock)
3 jaw chuck (1 set of masters) would prefer removable jaws
4 jaw chuck (set of masters included)
collet holder assembly and 5C collets, 8C would be much better
a minimum of
1 live center
1 drill chuck, jacobs or Albrecht (prefered)
Now, the nice things to have would be
8C collet holder (means a bigger diameter spindle)
2 dead centers
dogs
metric and english threading
DRO
quick change tool holder
angle attachment
Several different types of jaws
more masters
soft jaws, even aluminum jaws work
With the electric side of things. You can always get a phase converter like this:
http://www.phaseconverter.com/
to run 2 phase to 3 phase. Installing 220 would be easy and not to expensive.
Tooling wise, you will need the basics. Your tool holder size is going to be determined by your tool holder. I think 1" tool holders give you the best rigidity for your buck. 1" tool holders are not too expensive.
I like Sanvik tooling for lathes, not cheap, but they make the most of the best lathe tooling currently available.
At minimum your going to want these tool holders.
80 degree CMNG (C***) series 400 tool holder
35 degree series 400 tool holder
200 series tool holders in the above would be nice to have
I would recommend you buy tool holders as you need them.
Boring bars, by them as you need them. Carbide bars are nice, but rather pricey. HSS bars will get the job done for you most of the time. It is nice to have a 200 series and 300 or 400 series 80 degree boring bar and a 200 series and 400 series 35 degree tool. If your boring out soft jaws, a 35 degree tool is a must to put a relief in the jaws if it is need. Sizes of boring bars range from .02" to 3". I think over time for you, having a 3/8", 1/2" and 5/8" inserted bars would work well. For smaller holes, you will have to go smaller. Smaller holes or roughing is where carbide bars (I am talking about the bar material, not insert material) work well. Carbide is more rigid, less chatter.
chamfer tools, 90 tool holders that rotate the insert
60 degree tools (solid holders with brazed carbide tips work well for this)
Threading tools
You will probably need Size 1,2, and 3 at some point in time. Size 1 is the smallest, 3 the biggest. Kennametal insert holders are ok for this application. The added bonus of the Kennametal threading holders is you can use them for grooves too, with the correct sized insert.
drills, a GOOD set of HSS drills. Now, I am not really fond of set tools, most are crap. Here is what I would do. Buy a set of NAME brand drills, Hertel, OSG, Chicago ect. This will cost you some coin. Then, if you ever need another one, just buy a pack of 10 or 5.
Taps, by taps individually as you need them. OSG makes the best taps hand downs for all the basic applications.
You need a dead blow and a good dial test indicator for lathe work, .0005 resolution. With out a DRO. I would recommend you get one of these:
Get a GOOD dial plug indicator 2 or 3" of travel. You put this on the carriage and can use it for distances.
Lastly, I want to mention safety. Lathes can kill, and safety needs to be taken into serious consideration. Short sleeves and safety glasses are a minimum. Get some practice and some help!0 -
Green Lantern:
You are "rushing the gun" here. If you want to get into gunsmithing you need a WHOLE LOT of experience in machining - lathes, milling machines, drilling, tapping, grinding etc.
This is compared to starting to medical school and opening your doctor business at the same time.
Gunsmithing has many features that many machinists don't even want to get into. Check some local machine shops. They just don't want to get into something that takes time and needs to end up without killing the operator.0 -
Interesting I.Shute's "compared to starting to medical school and opening your doctor business at the same time". We all have to start somewhere. Getting an 'entry level' lathe, getting some training in it's use and doing entry level projects is a good way to get started. DIY is a great teacher if a person has aptitude for the work. Without native talent (aptitude) no amount of equipment or training will go far.
I recently had a revolver refinished at an impressive 'website' claiming graduation from a major gunsmith school & long experience - with amateurish results, showing lack of skill, judgment, etc. No aptitude!0 -
******I suggest a 3 jaw chuck that you can adjust run out.*****
You really need a 4 jaw to do that.........0 -
quote:Originally posted by mrbruce
******I suggest a 3 jaw chuck that you can adjust run out.*****
You really need a 4 jaw to do that.........
I hammer is a wonderful tool to adjust run out no matter what type of jaw you are using, 3,4,6. [;)] Ideally though, to have the best runout, you should bore soft jaws to the diameter of the clamping surface, then indicate it true. All jaws have their purpose, it is when to use them that takes time to learn.
Perry, with all do respect. Bored jaws or a collet system will work better for barrel work.0 -
I.Shute and Shoff 14..Have handed You some Good information...Listen to what they say...There's a lot of information that will stand You in Good stead one of these days.... 0 -
I've been working on AR15s for a number of years now, so it's basically repetative at this point and time to try some other aspects related to DIY AR work. Doing 80% lowers with a milling machine would be interesting to try, but I have a number of HBAR barrels that I want cut down, threaded, and reprofiled so that would be of more benefit. Thus the interest in the lathe. I appreciate all the replies and all the detail! That's exactly the kind of information I was looking for. I think Perry Shooter had the best advice though. Some training at a VoTech is the first thing I need to do. Then I can come back to the thread and use it to start searching for a lathe to buy. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by GreenLantern
I've been working on AR15s for a number of years now, so it's basically repetative at this point and time to try some other aspects related to DIY AR work. Doing 80% lowers with a milling machine would be interesting to try, but I have a number of HBAR barrels that I want cut down, threaded, and reprofiled so that would be of more benefit. Thus the interest in the lathe. I appreciate all the replies and all the detail! That's exactly the kind of information I was looking for. I think Perry Shooter had the best advice though. Some training at a VoTech is the first thing I need to do. Then I can come back to the thread and use it to start searching for a lathe to buy.
I think he gave you excellent advise in that aspect of things. Hopefully the CC close to you has some decent equipment and several types (belt and gear driven) then you will see the difference and be able to feel the difference. Should help you make an educated decision.
Don't give up on the idea though, it does take time to learn but if your whiling to put in the time its a skill no one can take away from you.0
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