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Brown Bess (circa 1760) inscription help required.

NY Flint
Hi
New here so here goes. I'm UK based and just picked up my first Bess. 2nd pattern circa 1760's.
Shortened barrel (36") full set of stamps in all the right places

Inscribed on top of barrel is
"R(possibly - not well struck) NY FUZILEERS
I can' find any UK link here but Google throws up New York Fuzileers.
Can anyone help me on this?
Pics provided soon.

Many thanks NY(North Yorkshire) Flint
aka Jon
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Comments

10 comments

Date Votes
  • rufe-snow
    If none of our folks can help you, you might try the pre 1899 firearms forum, on the Antiqueguns.com web-site. Many of the guys who hang there are very knowledgeable regarding 18th Century U.S. firearms.
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  • NY Flint
    Thanks for that. I'll give it a couple of days and see if it goes anywhere. Just difficult this side of the water to get a good handle on specific elements of the period.
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  • Spider7115
    The correct spelling may be FUSILIERS or FUSILEERS. If you Google those spellings, you'll find a lot of information. Also, check out this Facebook page:

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Point-Pleasant-PA/Royal-Welch-Fusiliers-in-America/155190660522
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  • rhmc24
    A few thoughts to start with. Fusil is the common French word for gun, usually shotgun. In the 1700s England it was generic for light musket. Fusileers would be troops lightly armed probably for quick hit-and-run tactics - something like today's commandos. That term is used today by collectors to describe a gun as an "officer's fusil" which were of similar pattern to the standard musket but a bit smaller, lighter, smaller bore, etc.

    That could account for your piece having a barrel shorter than the standard length for the 2nd Model Bess. It may have a smaller than musket bore of about 17 mm instead of around 20mm. The 1st Model Bess had 46" barrel, 2nd 42" and 3rd 39". Fusils I have owned and handled had barrels 36 to 40".
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  • NY Flint
    quote:Originally posted by Spider7115
    The correct spelling may be FUSILIERS or FUSILEERS. If you Google those spellings, you'll find a lot of information. Also, check out this Facebook page:

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Point-Pleasant-PA/Royal-Welch-Fusiliers-in-America/155190660522

    The spelling of Fuzileer (as on the barrel) is noted as changing in the 1770's, certainly in the UK. As the lock is marked Tower i.e.post 1764 (I believe) this really narrows down this reference to a 10-15 year bracket.
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  • NY Flint
    quote:Originally posted by NY Flint
    quote:Originally posted by Spider7115
    The correct spelling may be FUSILIERS or FUSILEERS. If you Google those spellings, you'll find a lot of information. Also, check out this Facebook page:

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Point-Pleasant-PA/Royal-Welch-Fusiliers-in-America/155190660522

    The spelling of Fuzileer (as on the barrel) is noted as changing in the 1770's, certainly in the UK. As the lock is marked Tower i.e.post 1764 (I believe) this really narrows down this reference to a 10-15 year bracket.

    I've Googled variations on the name but nothing specific comes up excepting broad references to New York Fuzileers.
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  • NY Flint
    quote:Originally posted by rhmc24
    A few thoughts to start with. Fusil is the common French word for gun, usually shotgun. In the 1700s England it was generic for light musket. Fusileers would be troops lightly armed probably for quick hit-and-run tactics - something like today's commandos. That term is used today by collectors to describe a gun as an "officer's fusil" which were of similar pattern to the standard musket but a bit smaller, lighter, smaller bore, etc.

    That could account for your piece having a barrel shorter than the standard length for the 2nd Model Bess. It may have a smaller than musket bore of about 17 mm instead of around 20mm. The 1st Model Bess had 46" barrel, 2nd 42" and 3rd 39". Fusils I have owned and handled had barrels 36 to 40".

    Hi
    In poor light and without my guage it measures about 22-24mm bore. The front sight is gone and the fore stock a little shortened (side by side with another Bess) you can just see the old chisel marks. It's lost a good 4-6". As it's percussion conversion it was possibly in use neigh on 90+ years so possibly the barrel was cut down because of age etc.
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  • rhmc24
    With the further description, you obviously don't have a fusil. A 22-24mm bore is more like a rampart gun. It seems to have been treated to much rework. Fusiliers name could date decades before the mid 17s. In UK a huge amount of historical military data exists that you would find useful to explore for policies and practices used to mark arms.

    Unit ID is often seen on the escutcheon (thumb piece) of the Bess. Just last week I returned a 1760 1st model with unit ID traceable to American Rev use and what looked like Richmond on the Bbl.

    We have some very knowledgeable people here re English arms who may report in but you are where you should have a tighter connection with authorities and collectors in UK. What I report is as a collector and restorer over past 40 years rather than as a historian.
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  • givette
    The Royal Firearms' Centre (formerly the Pattern Room) has been recently moved to Leeds. Entrance is restricted to those with a legitimate need. However, perhaps there's a online computer link to the Centre, whereby they have a research department.

    Also, I might sugest that you see the Warminster school of infantry weapons collection. Warminster is west of Oxford and SE of Bath, and is available to the general public.

    If memory serves, though, they are closed except for a few days per week. Best, and Good Luck!! NY (New York) Joe
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  • NY Flint
    quote:Originally posted by rhmc24
    With the further description, you obviously don't have a fusil. A 22-24mm bore is more like a rampart gun. It seems to have been treated to much rework. Fusiliers name could date decades before the mid 17s. In UK a huge amount of historical military data exists that you would find useful to explore for policies and practices used to mark arms.

    Unit ID is often seen on the escutcheon (thumb piece) of the Bess. Just last week I returned a 1760 1st model with unit ID traceable to American Rev use and what looked like Richmond on the Bbl.

    We have some very knowledgeable people here re English arms who may report in but you are where you should have a tighter connection with authorities and collectors in UK. What I report is as a collector and restorer over past 40 years rather than as a historian.
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