Bert: Winchester 1892 Nickle update (pics)
OK finally got this 1892 :
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=419761
dropped off, looks like my memory ain't so good, apparently my buddy has multiple nickle guns and I mixed the two up in my head, this one has/had a "goldwash" finish over what I think is nickle. Where ever the "goldwash" is worn away the nickle is perfect. The gold wash effect confuses me so hopefully you can lend some insight there.
The serial number is 129955 and is serif lettering which the Pirkle book has as correct. Under the first 9 of the serial number are two letter "E"'s stamped 1/4 of an inch apart and perpendicular to the serial number.
The bolt, hammer and lever all appear to be bare and show no obvious signs of ever having a finish on them. The front sight is a two piece design and is nickle/Goldwashed like the rest of the gun. The rear sight is almost for sure a newer replacement as it is blued and shows signs of some gorilla banging it into place. It is also only 1/4 of an inch high compared to about 15/32 high on my other 1892.
The trigger is worn goldwashed nickel also.
The stock does not fit the receiver or the butt plate as well as my other roughly same period 1892. The wood is larger than the steel in both the receiver and butt plate.
The hammer has the correct outline of a type one as described by Pirkle but the knurling is almost 100% worn away. The lever matches what Pirkle describes as a type 1.
Lastly it has a paper tag on it from an auction, on one side is typed:
343
Winchester
Model 1892
44-40 cAL
1930's western movie star
Serial number 129955
On the other side of the card and hand written is :
87
antique- MFG 1896
Nickle PL. with goldwash
sold in 1898 to production co. - Calif
The latter makes me think "Movie" not wild west show as I had previously and erroneously stated. If this truly were in one of the old western movies it might be identifiable from the unique tacks, right?
Pics can be viewed here:
http://s824.photobucket.com/albums/zz168/jeepflexin/Winchester 1892 129955/
I could not get a clear pic of the serial number or the "E"s, I tried but they came out too blurry.
I'm hoping to find out anything about this good or bad, including speculative value. Thanks alot for your help (agian[:)]) and I hope I have been thorough in my description this time.
Also Bert is Pirkles dates for serial numbers erroneous also? If yes where other than bugging you can I look up accurate dates?
~Pete~
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=419761
dropped off, looks like my memory ain't so good, apparently my buddy has multiple nickle guns and I mixed the two up in my head, this one has/had a "goldwash" finish over what I think is nickle. Where ever the "goldwash" is worn away the nickle is perfect. The gold wash effect confuses me so hopefully you can lend some insight there.
The serial number is 129955 and is serif lettering which the Pirkle book has as correct. Under the first 9 of the serial number are two letter "E"'s stamped 1/4 of an inch apart and perpendicular to the serial number.
The bolt, hammer and lever all appear to be bare and show no obvious signs of ever having a finish on them. The front sight is a two piece design and is nickle/Goldwashed like the rest of the gun. The rear sight is almost for sure a newer replacement as it is blued and shows signs of some gorilla banging it into place. It is also only 1/4 of an inch high compared to about 15/32 high on my other 1892.
The trigger is worn goldwashed nickel also.
The stock does not fit the receiver or the butt plate as well as my other roughly same period 1892. The wood is larger than the steel in both the receiver and butt plate.
The hammer has the correct outline of a type one as described by Pirkle but the knurling is almost 100% worn away. The lever matches what Pirkle describes as a type 1.
Lastly it has a paper tag on it from an auction, on one side is typed:
343
Winchester
Model 1892
44-40 cAL
1930's western movie star
Serial number 129955
On the other side of the card and hand written is :
87
antique- MFG 1896
Nickle PL. with goldwash
sold in 1898 to production co. - Calif
The latter makes me think "Movie" not wild west show as I had previously and erroneously stated. If this truly were in one of the old western movies it might be identifiable from the unique tacks, right?
Pics can be viewed here:
http://s824.photobucket.com/albums/zz168/jeepflexin/Winchester 1892 129955/
I could not get a clear pic of the serial number or the "E"s, I tried but they came out too blurry.
I'm hoping to find out anything about this good or bad, including speculative value. Thanks alot for your help (agian[:)]) and I hope I have been thorough in my description this time.
Also Bert is Pirkles dates for serial numbers erroneous also? If yes where other than bugging you can I look up accurate dates?
~Pete~
0
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I normally dont go for Dolled up guns but There is something about this one that I really like. It would really be nice in Cowboy SASS matches. Thanks for posting picture site. I would be looking at every western movie I could get my hands on until I found this one Lash Larue[?][?][?] 0 -
Due to a slow connection and small screen, I was only able to view one picture. Will look again when I get home. I don't think the finish is factory, and there were not a lot of movies being made in 1898.
Edit: the pictures are bad. The "gold wash" looks like paint to me. I have never seen gold plating that color (could be the pictures) or with wear patterns like that (not the pictures!)0 -
That is not factory original nickel plating. When Winchester nickel plated a lever-action, the forestock nosecap was always plated... and the one on the rifle is blued. Additionally, the color of the remaining nickel is not right, and I see some dishing around the screw heads on the receiver frame.
Additionally, the tags on the gun are bogus... serial number 129955 was not manufctured until after the turn of the century (as I mentioned before, serial number 103321 was the final serial number made in the year 1898). That rifle will undoubtedly letter as being made in the year 1900 at the earliest.
Somebody got sold a "tall tale" when they bought that rifle... the hand written information on the tag is 100% bogus[V]
Overall, it is what I would referred to as "F'UGLY", and is going to be a real tough sell for anything over about $750.0 -
i once owned a Win. M-92 25-20 Carbine, it was a factory original that had the Magazine tube Nickel plated along with the loading gate, rear sight, butt plate, barrel bands, and trigger.
i mistakenly fired someone else's reloads during a Fox hunt, the Fox took off about 50 yds. in front of me and i pulled a John Wayne, rapid lever action firing, i hit the Fox on the third shot, it kept running, i kept firing till i heard an unusual sound, the 10th round had no powder, the next round did, ringed the barrel in front of the forearm, sent it to P.O. Ackley for conversion to .357 Mag. , it never functioned properly after the conversion, so i sold it.
if anyone in So. Cal. area ever sees this Carbine let me know, i will buy it back at double the price i sold it for !!0 -
quote:Originally posted by Bert H.
That is not factory original nickel plating. When Winchester nickel plated a lever-action, the forestock nosecap was always plated... and the one on the rifle is blued. Additionally, the color of the remaining nickel is not right, and I see some dishing around the screw heads on the receiver frame.
Additionally, the tags on the gun are bogus... serial number 129955 was not manufctured until after the turn of the century (as I mentioned before, serial number 103321 was the final serial number made in the year 1898). That rifle will undoubtedly letter as being made in the year 1900 at the earliest.
Somebody got sold a "tall tale" when they bought that rifle... the hand written information on the tag is 100% bogus[V]
Overall, it is what I would referred to as "F'UGLY", and is going to be a real tough sell for anything over about $750.
Thanks for the info Bert, my buddy will be crushed but it is what it is, I'm gonna tell him it prolly is not worth investing in a letter. He will just have to understand that he is "upside down" in this is all. Your time is once agian really appreciated.[:)]
In the next week or two I'm gonna get some good pics up for you to look at on MY 1892, with a little luck you won't crush my world too.[:D]0 -
quote:Originally posted by Jeepflexin
In the next week or two I'm gonna get some good pics up for you to look at on MY 1892, with a little luck you won't crush my world too.[:D]
I never set out to "crush" anyone (or their old Winchester), but I absolutely do believe in being up front and frank about what I see and write. I will look forward to seeing the pictures of your Model 1892.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Jeepflexin
Thanks for the info Bert, my buddy will be crushed but it is what it is, I'm gonna tell him it prolly is not worth investing in a letter. He will just have to understand that he is "upside down" in this is all. Your time is once agian really appreciated.[:)]
I tried to send you a PM, but it got kicked back as undeliverable. Just for curiousity sake, I called Cody and had them run serial number 129955 to see what is in the records... it letters as being received in the warehouse on February 5th, 1900, and it was a standard Sporting Rifle (no extras). If you would like a copy of the research sheet, please send me your email address and I will send you a scanned copy of the Fax I received from Cody.0 -
Thanks a million Bert, the offer is very unexpected and generous, you are a true credit to the gunbroker forums. [:)]
My email is jeepflexin@verizon.net
I'll look into why my PM didn't work, thanks for the heads up on that.0 -
I sent you an email with the information, and you are quite welcome[:)]. 0 -
If anyone had any interest, this is listed on the auction side:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=158049832
I think i have it listed as honestly as can be, time to let the masses decide what it is worth.[:)] Thanks again for the input.0
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