Model 12 ID-Verification
I need some help with verifying what proof marks, etc, to look for on a 1963 vintage Pigeon Grade Winchester Model 12 20 gauge.
Both serial #'s match on the barrel & reciever so I am sure of what year it was made however, am getting some conflicting info regarding the rest of it.
It is engraved with a pigeon on the bottom of the barrel just forward of the serial number, also has the jeweled breach block & magazine door. It has a solid rib with a red front sight & a second silver one in the middle. I was told Winchester didn't put any ribbed barrels on model 12's after 1962 therefore, this one is a fake...true or false (this didn't come from an expert)? Also this great looking gun has no engraving on the reciever. I know a lot of them did but if this one does not, does that set off any alarms?
It's proof marked on top of the reciever with an oval containing a "W" and a "P" running through the center of it. The barrel has two proof marks both located near the rear of the barrel, the closest to the reciever matches the "W" "P" found on top of the reciever, the second just forward of it is an oval with just a "P" in it. I'm guessing it means Pigeon Grade.
Other than it stamping on the barrel identifying it's maker, gauge, & choke, 2 3/4", etc, there is nothing else.
Is there anything else I can look for??
Thanks
Both serial #'s match on the barrel & reciever so I am sure of what year it was made however, am getting some conflicting info regarding the rest of it.
It is engraved with a pigeon on the bottom of the barrel just forward of the serial number, also has the jeweled breach block & magazine door. It has a solid rib with a red front sight & a second silver one in the middle. I was told Winchester didn't put any ribbed barrels on model 12's after 1962 therefore, this one is a fake...true or false (this didn't come from an expert)? Also this great looking gun has no engraving on the reciever. I know a lot of them did but if this one does not, does that set off any alarms?
It's proof marked on top of the reciever with an oval containing a "W" and a "P" running through the center of it. The barrel has two proof marks both located near the rear of the barrel, the closest to the reciever matches the "W" "P" found on top of the reciever, the second just forward of it is an oval with just a "P" in it. I'm guessing it means Pigeon Grade.
Other than it stamping on the barrel identifying it's maker, gauge, & choke, 2 3/4", etc, there is nothing else.
Is there anything else I can look for??
Thanks
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The markings on the barrel indicate a factory replacement barrel due to the "P" inside of the oval. Be careful of fakes. Can you post a clear picture of the pigeon on the bottom of the reciever extension? 0 -
Pigeon Model 12s did not have to be engraved. The wood should either have pigeon grade checkering or A or B carving. 0 -
Post immediately above this (P Muerrle) has been moved to the sticky at the top of the page. Best, Joe
EDIT-Info Added
Below is the link to Majic051's auction. He asked me to do an 'eval', and it looks Okay to me, but I am posting the link because he would like further information on his firearm, and I feel there are better qualified than me to answer. Here's the link! Best, Joe
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=1480687060 -
That is not a factory pigeon. The checkering pattern on stock and forearm is not pigeon grade checkering. From what I can see of the forearm it appears to be one large diamond on the bottom. It should have three diamonds, the ones on the ends checkered and the one in the middle plain. The checkering on the stock doesn't have the small checkered "tail" protruding from it as the correct pigeon grade checkering pattern would have had. The engraved pigeon was not done by a factory engraver. The shading, and also the lines underneath the pigeon are done incorrectly. 0
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