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9 comments

Date Votes
  • Bert H.
    Absolutely a fake. Almost none of what the seller says about it is the truth.

    Winchester ceased case color finishing in August of 1901... and they definitely did not refinish or rebarrel that gun. The barrel and magazine tube have been buffed & polished and refinished by someone other than the factory. Winchester never put a proof mark on just the frame ring, nor did they do so as early as 1901.
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  • Spider7115
    quote:Originally posted by Bert H.
    Absolutely a fake. Almost none of what the seller says about it is the truth.

    Winchester ceased case color finishing in August of 1901... and they definitely did not refinish or rebarrel that gun. The barrel and magazine tube have been buffed & polished and refinished by someone other than the factory. Winchester never put a proof mark on just the frame ring, nor did they do so as early as 1901.


    Bert - What about the letter from Waddy Colvert? Is that fake, too, particularly the handwritten work order info and number?
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  • Bert H.
    The Factory letter signed by Waddy is real enough (the type written information), but the hand written information added on the bottom of the letter was put there by someone other than Waddy (i.e the person who owned it at the time). There is no information concerning what was done during the R&R that was accessible to Waddy, and if there had been, it would have been typed into the letter.

    I have seen both the rifle and the letter in person... believe me, they are both doctored up quite a bit[xx(].
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  • CapnMidnight
    From what I can see, the letter states that that serial # left the factory as a 38-70 with a half mag, the letter also states it was returned to the factory for repairs. The letter says they have no information on what repairs where made. The hand written stiff at the bottom of the page means nothing. The case hardened frame is fake. Read the letter for what it says, not what the seller IMPLIES it says.
    W.D.
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  • fishydr
    Spider :

    I agree completely with Bert with his assessment of this gun. Almost every screw has been lightly damaged, polished and refinished. The wood is not nearly 3X wood as claimed by the seller.

    The case colors are far more brilliant than one would expect to see done by Winchester. It would be wise to give Doug Turnbull a call and see if the receiver was ever received by his shop as it has brilliance typical of his work.

    It is my opinion that the barrel was not installed by Winchester as it lacks the proof mark to match the one on the receiver. The barrel has been heavily buffed and blued with a shiny black finish untypical of Winchester

    I would stop here and I would grade the gun as a fairly good restoration, but the letter identifies a gun as an obvious attempt to falsify its originality. I have seen many letters from the Cody museum including letters from Waddy. I have never seen any of those letters with an added a handwritten notation such as this letter has. Also if you examine Waddy's signature, the notation seems to be an obvious attempt at a poor forgery and I'm no expert on forged documents. If it were my gun, I would ask for a new Cody letter devoid of handwritten additions and offer the gun at a realistic price as a restored piece that was not done by Winchester.

    If it were original, it would be easier to place a value but considering the package as offered, I would estimate the value and less than half the asking price and maybe that is too much .

    Larry Shennum (fishydr)
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  • Spider7115
    I have no argument with Bert's assessment. I was just curious if that was Waddy's writing and signature in the handwritten portion or it was placed there in an attempt to deceive a potential buyer. I knew Bert would know for sure. Thanks, Bert!
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  • Mark G
    Question from a layman. Since this is an obvious attempt to portray the gun as something it is not for a higher value than what it is really worth, couldn't the auction administration flag or remove such a post? While I don't have the money for such a firearm, someone else might be taken in. I guess the actual question is, how does Gunbroker protect its users from such mis-representations other than a question in a forum such as this?
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  • duckhunter
    Buyer Beware.
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  • Bert H.
    Caveat Emptor
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