Old Shotgun Identity Help-Unique Design-Photos
These are from a shotgun submitted by member 'dewhite' who needs our help with as much information as we can add. He should be along shortly to tell the story behind the shotgun. Here are the photographs:
Best.
Best.
0
-
Hello looks like East German "SUHL" after 1950 but gun looks older then this[?]With German eagle beside the crown S is black powder proof for smooth-bore the eagle and crown W is choke bored the crown R is a repair proof but then the crown N is nitro proof so my take would be it started out as black powder but repaired/replaced with nitro proof barrels. However get others to confirm before thinking about shooting this shotgun. I have seen that receiver before but can't remember its name sort of reminds me of an early DARNE but they were french. I end up with more questions then answers. good luck neat old gun. 0 -
Interesting!
Proofs point to a 1950's Repair & Nitro Proof... Suhl, E. Germany.
My guess (and only a guess) is a gun made in what is now the Czeck Republic as there's one proof I'm unable to read properly. The general design is German (Austria-Hungarian) and the lock arrangement is unique to say the least.
Value? Who knows? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but this was not a cheap gun 100 years ago.0 -
I was correct...
Proof indicates 1891-1899 Czeck. (2)Inside proof indicates Prague. (3) Inside proof stamp indicates Weipert.
So a Czeck shotgun made before 1900. Likely original tubes repaired and re-proofed sometime in the early 50's in Suhl, E. Germany.
Given the communist status of both nations at this time, I suspect this old girl has an interesting history. She somehow evaded the Russians (I expect) and stayed in the hands of those above the general rule of law.
And since she shows E. German proofs from the 50's, I'd have to expect ownership by a high government official.0 -
Thank you all for the information / help.
The story I have about is from my grandfather. During WW2, his older brother mailed it home. He (my uncle) died about 15 years ago and my grandfather put it in the gun cabinet and left it there. There was also a .22 rifle that I believe is of German decent. If interested, I will get some pictures of it. Thats about it. Short and sweet. I should be seeing him in the next couple of weeks, and I will try to get more information out of him.
I should have done more research befor posting so that I wouldn't look so dumb, but the proof marks Nord mentions...where / what are they? The numbers under the circle 16 (I assume this is 16g), are they prouctions numbers? Are there other marks on the gun I should be looking for, an where would I find them. I am leary of removing screws due to the age of the gun/hardware.
I have always admired the gun mainly because of the detailed engraving and because of the uniqueness. Are there any suggestions on how to enhance/restore the metalwork? I have cleaned it 3 times so far with CLP and a copper pad, but that isnt getting into engravings. I am not concerned with resale of the gun, I got it from my grandfather and hope to pass it on to my son.
Thanks again for the info.
Dave0 -
Proofs are the tiny stamps on the watertable and on the underside of the barrels. The little crown-overs are the Shul proofs which would seem to contradict the WW2 story. (In actuality I'd probably believe that your story is correct and that the proofs extend back to prior to WW2 for shotguns.) The rather fuzzy marks that have "legs" sort of like an insect are the original Czeck definitive proofs.
As to cleaning, it's up to you. The best advice I can give is to maintain the preservation and not attempt to improve the piece. "Improving" never improves. It always degrades.
You have an interesting piece of history. Value here in the US will be lower than in Europe as a rule for this type of gun. Whether the unique receiver might add or detract from the value is anyone's guess.
As I said... Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Tubes are original to this gun in my opinion. Having German black powder proofs, then nitro proofs is consistent with the process of the repair. New tubes would not have carried the Czeck proof. Numbers under the 16 (ga.) are probably metric choke dimensions.
Remove nothing as there is no need. All you could do has been done and more can only cause harm.0 -
Horst Held is a well-known collector and dealer in oddball European firearms and also a member of the GB forums. I suggest you contact him and he most likely can help you.
His website is http://www.horstheld.com/ and his e-mail is held@ectisp.net
Please let us know what you find out about your interesting shotgun. Good luck!0 -
I talked to my grandfather last night and asked again about the origins of the gun. He said that his brother mailed it home during WW2 while stationed in Germany. I told him that the proof marks indicate Czech, and he said his brother was stationed in Czech after the war. Not sure if maybe details might be a bit fuzzy, he just turned 90 and that was a long time ago.
I emailed Mr. Hurd on Tuesday (I think) with the link to the topic. Hopefully he will be able to provide his experience to the topic.
Dave0 -
That is one interesting shotgun!!
As did perryshooter, I thought an early Darne as well. Bad guess.
It's a real treat dewhite; thanks for sharing!
OleDuk[:D][:D]0
Please sign in to leave a comment.
Comments
8 comments