California and Hand Gun...cont'd
Here's the rules.
1. If you live in FL, you can buy private party (a.k.a Face-to-Face). That is the Federal law regarding that. Some states say you have to register the gun or get a permit to own it. That applies within those states. It does not apply within the state of Florida. This discussion does not encompass/apply to a FTF deal within the state of California because the OP stated the handgun came from FL.
2. Legally, you can go around the rules if you choose, but if you go to sell it, it might come back on you: you must bring the pistol back through a California FFL if you are a resident of California. In the off chance you get caught doing this it's a felony. Plain and simple. There are no misdemeanors for a federal violation.
3. If you bring it back through an FFL in CA, it must meet CA standards as to what and what cannot be sold as far as firearms there.
4. If the buyer was a resident of FL when he bought the handgun he can bring it to CA by any legal means. USPS is not a legal means of shipping a handgun...or ammunition. Carrying with in acceptable container or shipping by common carrier is.
5. This discussion would really be helped if someone knew the status of the original poster. Then we could give clear direction on what he needed to do.
1. If you live in FL, you can buy private party (a.k.a Face-to-Face). That is the Federal law regarding that. Some states say you have to register the gun or get a permit to own it. That applies within those states. It does not apply within the state of Florida. This discussion does not encompass/apply to a FTF deal within the state of California because the OP stated the handgun came from FL.
2. Legally, you can go around the rules if you choose, but if you go to sell it, it might come back on you: you must bring the pistol back through a California FFL if you are a resident of California. In the off chance you get caught doing this it's a felony. Plain and simple. There are no misdemeanors for a federal violation.
3. If you bring it back through an FFL in CA, it must meet CA standards as to what and what cannot be sold as far as firearms there.
4. If the buyer was a resident of FL when he bought the handgun he can bring it to CA by any legal means. USPS is not a legal means of shipping a handgun...or ammunition. Carrying with in acceptable container or shipping by common carrier is.
5. This discussion would really be helped if someone knew the status of the original poster. Then we could give clear direction on what he needed to do.
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I think you're making this more complicated than it needs to be.
Delsoul's question was about him (a CA resident) buying a handgun in FL. The simple answer is, he can't do it.
A nonlicensee can only obtain a handgun from another nonlicensee within his own state (state & local law permitting), or from a Federal Firearms Licensee within his own state.
Neal0 -
nmyers,
I'm not making it more complicated than it is. Delsoul never said if he was a resident of CA or FL when he bought the handgun.
And, the simple answer is HE CAN DO IT if he follows procedures.
It aggravates me, and I hope all gun owners, when I hear something can't be done simply because the person doing the deal has to take an extra step to make it legal.
When you try to simplify it down to not being able to be done, you have just stepped on to the "anti-" side. "Nope, too hard, don't try."
It might be more helpful in the future if you look for solutions to getting this done instead of just saying it can't be done. Especially when the law clearly states there is a way.0 -
You've lost track of the original question and have headed off in another direction.
If someone purchases a hand gun in Florida, can he ship the gun to himself at home in Sacramento, CA or is it simply illegal to ship to Sacramento, CA period?
That was the man's question and it clearly asks can he ship the gun to himself at home in Sacramento, CA , which means that whom ever the interested party is, that party resides in CA...Specifically in Sacramento. CA residents who are non licensees cannot purchase modern firearms out of state and return with them to CA.0 -
mark christian,
or is it simply illegal to ship to Sacramento, CA period?
That part of the question needs to be answered. It is legal. But, you have to follow procedures (I think I've said that several times) That means finding out if that particular firearm can be owned in CA, and shipping it to an FFL. I know they still have them there. Maybe you'd even have to find an FFL in FL to ship to a CA FFL. But that's how you get it done. If it's not legal to ship to CA that way then show me the law!
So my question then is this how you leave someone from CA when they ask this question? "Oh, you're from CA....you can't buy guns here" And leave Californians out of the Constitution? Telling someone the correct way to get a handgun to CA is not sidetracking the question. It's taking the question all the way to the solution of how to get the handgun there. Not taking the simple way out and saying "No, you can't" That individual may then believe than handguns can't go to CA when in fact they can.0 -
See item B12 - for all we know from the original question perhaps this applies to the OP:
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm
I think we all agree that as a nonlicensee and (if) a nonresident of FL he can't buy a handgun in that state and walk with it, but with respect strictly to the shipping question asked, there is no local, state or federal law that prohibits him from shipping a handgun to himself in Sacramento, CA. At least not yet.
I know newer folks sometimes ask questions that invite alot more commentary, such as "a guy at the club wants to sell me a real Thompson - is $2,000.00 a good price?" so perhaps the question falls into that category. Maybe not quite so out there, just of the same flavor so to speak.0 -
I've been selling guns in this state (CA) for over 30 years, owned my owned gun shop for over 20 of them, and I think I understand the firearms regulations here pretty darned well. Is the party involved a resident of CA and attempting to buy a handgun in FL?
That is the question and when it is answered then we can procede.0 -
I think (well, hope) that we are close to agreement here.
Let's forget about CA for a minute, & talk about federal laws as it applies to handguns. A nonlicensee can only acquire a handgun in his own state, not in any other state. If you travel to another state & find a handgun in a gunshop & you want to buy it, that dealer WILL NOT sell it to you on the spot, as you are not a resident of his state. What he CAN do is take your money & ship it to a licensed dealer in your state, so that a transfer can be done in accordance with the law in your state. The key thing here is that such a transfer must be legal in BOTH states. The dealer cannot hand you the gun & let you ship it to yourself or to your dealer; HE CANNOT ALLOW YOU TO TAKE POSSESSION OF THE GUN, NO MATTER WHAT. That would be a felony.
Whether or not the dealer in the other state is inclined to do such a transfer is up to him. If he were to ship your purchase to your dealer & it turned out to be a prohibited item, your dealer would return it & you would be out some or all of your money.
Sandwarrior, you are correct, there is often a way to work out a purchase. But, Delsoul's original question was about taking immediate possession of a handgun in another state, which he still cannot do.
Neal0 -
quote:Originally posted by nmyers
I think (well, hope) that we are close to agreement here.
Let's forget about CA for a minute, & talk about federal laws as it applies to handguns. A nonlicensee can only acquire a handgun in his own state, not in any other state. If you travel to another state & find a handgun in a gunshop & you want to buy it, that dealer WILL NOT sell it to you on the spot, as you are not a resident of his state. What he CAN do is take your money & ship it to a licensed dealer in your state, so that a transfer can be done in accordance with the law in your state. The key thing here is that such a transfer must be legal in BOTH states. The dealer cannot hand you the gun & let you ship it to yourself or to your dealer; HE CANNOT ALLOW YOU TO TAKE POSSESSION OF THE GUN, NO MATTER WHAT. That would be a felony.
Whether or not the dealer in the other state is inclined to do such a transfer is up to him. If he were to ship your purchase to your dealer & it turned out to be a prohibited item, your dealer would return it & you would be out some or all of your money.
Sandwarrior, you are correct, there is often a way to work out a purchase. But, Delsoul's original question was about taking immediate possession of a handgun in another state, which he still cannot do.
Neal
I think we are all agreed in that sense. He can't take immediate possession of the handgun. What I'm saying is that when presented with that question, I personally, will refer someone to the correct guidelines to get a handgun shipped to them in a state that allows that handgun to be owned by legal residents of their state. It seems many deals can't be done because people don't know who to contact. When people make them feel guilty over sending a handgun to another person in another location it doesn't help. Not everyone is as thick skinned as us about that.
I know of some awesome guns owned by friends of mine who would give any of us first right to buy (say we can't afford it actually). Several of those friends live in California. Deals like this have been done legally.
With the new law in CA, (I called and was told this), you have an FFL ship to your CA FFL, FFL exchanges via fax/e-mail, fees paid, firearm ships, CA FFL receives, waiting period waited, buyer pays rest of fees to CA FFL deal is done.0 -
There is one very expensive way to get a non-approved handgun into Calif from Florida.
The Calif resident can move to Florida and "become a resident" of that state. He can then buy the gun he wants in Florida as a resident of Florida. He can then move back to Calif and bring the gun with him. He must fill out a "New resident handgun ownership report" with Cal DOJ and pay a $19 fee within 60 days of arriving in Cal.0 -
Gentelmen this is simple,it does matter about state laws of owner ship in this case. If you dont have proof of residence in fla. you may not purchase a hand gun. ie gun control act of 1968. I have held
a 01 ffl since 1989. you live in the same state or you buy a gun illegally.All dealers better know and abide this. You mess up here and it is federal crime for buyer and dealer. nuf said.0
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