can dies be modified?
fellow shooters - i'm contemplating modifying a rifle, currently chambered in .223, to a 223 improved. Can a gunsmith modify the sizing die with the same reamer that he'd use to modify the rifle's chamber? Or is there more to it than that?
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Would hazard a guess and say probably not. The reamer is cutting the steel of a firearm, but a loading die is hardened after it is cut, and may be harder than the reamer. Especially if it is a carbide die. Otherwise, dies would wear in use, and quickly be "out of spec".
However, that is frnkly a guess on my part. Anyone else? Anyone? Bueller?0 -
IF the die is made of leaded steel, than the reamer should cut it, however if it's made out of another material, or chromed, than the reamer won't cut it.
Two other problems, 1 is that the body section of the die needs to be smaller than he chamber, by .004-.006. The other issue is the neck section of the die (unless your starting with a bushing die) which needs to reduce the brass even more than the that.
Now, you could do what I did, and start with a Newlon Stainless sizing die blank (they are a bushing style) and have it hard chromed (.002 thick) after reaming and hardening.0 -
Or, you could talk to these folks about making custom dies to meet your needs:
http://www.ch4d.com/
Neal0 -
Or be darned sure your gunsmith is rechambering to a known improved version that you can buy dies for; there are more than one.
Or do what I do. Or don't do, I no longer shoot wildcats or calibers so obsolete as to make loading for them the same as a wildcat.0 -
swampthing36,
"Can a gunsmith modify the sizing die with the same reamer that he'd use to modify the rifle's chamber? Or is there more to it than that?"
There is more to it.
In the first place, the gunsmith has to set your barrel back in order to cut a proper Ackley Improved chamber. If you're wanting to have some other form of 'improved' chamber those specs have to be examined before cutting a chamber.
Second, as pointed out, there is a difference in the diameters of a sizing die reamer as opposed to a chamber reamer with the chamber reamer being larger to allow for the expansion of the case and bullet release upon firing. The sizing die reduces the now slightly larger case to being slightly SMALLER than the chamber in order to allow the loaded cartridge to chamber each and every time.
As to the Ackley Improved chamber, from the CH4D site as mentioned:
"In rimless bottleneck cases you will use an Ackley 'Go' gauge. The 'Go' gauge for the parent cartridge will become the 'No-Go' Gauge. Why does this work?
Ackley was pretty smart, he realized that if he set up the "Improved" chamber shorter than the factory chamber that you would be able to fire factory ammo. Because the brass is slightly crushed by the neck/shoulder junction of the new shorter chamber it is held tight against the bolt face for firing. That is why you must set the barrel back when rechambering for a rimless bottle necked cases in Ackley Improved configuration."
As to die availability:
The .223 Ackley Improved cartridge is extremely popular with the varmint shooting folks and even to a certain extent, the target shooting folks since, if properly set up, this chamber often proves to be exceptionally accurate. It is the equivalent of the .222 Remington Magnum cartridge by volume without having to add new and different cases. Just use the standard .223 Remington cases and go shoot! Fireforming loads are suitable for use when shooting varmints and you aren't wasting bullets and powder. Fireforming can also be done while sighting your rifle in at the range.
Dies for the Ackley Improved chamber are available from every commercial die manufacturer in the U.S. as far as I know. These dies are usually listed on the websites that sell reloading components and tools.
If you're trying to save money by trying this, forget it. By the time your gunsmith gets this set up, set back, buys a re-sizing reamer and performs the work, you could have purchased a brand new set of custom dies and not had to wait. If you need cheaper dies call Lee or RCBS. If you want good dies, call Forster Products and price the Benchrest Micrometer series of dies. These are carried by most of the standard retailers at a better price than what you can get from Forster directly.
It's a great chamber, I have use many of these for both target and varmints. One of my test bed long range rifles is a .223 Ackley Improved.
Best.0 -
Guys,
Thanks for all the feedback. I knew I'd get plenty of information. I remember reading an article some years back where a guy had a custom rifle built with an improved chamber. His gunsmith made up a set of dies using the same reamer. Made sense to me. I've gotten to be a bit of an accuracy nut but hadn't given much thought to reaming a set of dies until the last few months. Saving cost wasn't my intention in this case, but from the sounds of all the feedback, better off just getting a set of dies already set up. Thanks again for all the feedback. Oh by the way, my Model 12 restoration is done. You all ought to see it. She's a beauty!0 -
swampthing36,
When you get a minute, we'd all like to see the Model 12 pictures to appreciate your work!
Best.0 -
quote:Originally posted by nononsense
swampthing36,
When you get a minute, we'd all like to see the Model 12 pictures to appreciate your work!
Best.
will do!0 -
You can send RCBS a couple of the rounds you plan to use and they can make up any die you want. 0 -
Tailgunner beat me to it[^][^][^] the die has to be smaller in dementions than the chamber[:)][:)] Eddie 0
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