Scoping a Mosin-Nagant
l recently bought two very good condition Mosin-Nagant rifles. They're both 1939 M91/30 Tula models. The bores on both are completely unpitted, grooves and lands still intact, and they both fire like a charm.
l was considering recently however, putting on a Russian 3.5 PU scope on one of them to go for the "classic" sniper look. l bought both rifles for $90 each, and have already purchased the scope months ago for $215. l can have the stock relieved, and the receiver drilled and tapped for $85 with a local gunsmith, and l already have a bent bolt (one of them came with it - it's not an ex-sniper though).
So for those prices, it would be a much wiser investment to convert one to a sniper rifle rather than to buy one for $500.
The only problem l'm facing now is novelty - should l really "mess up" a classic 91/30 by scoping it? l've looked over several gun forums, and it seems to be frowned upon by more hardcore gun collectors, and l certainly wouldn't want to be laughed off the range.
Also, from what l understand (i came across this several times on different forums), the iron sights seem to be more accurate than the PU scopes - is this true?
l was considering recently however, putting on a Russian 3.5 PU scope on one of them to go for the "classic" sniper look. l bought both rifles for $90 each, and have already purchased the scope months ago for $215. l can have the stock relieved, and the receiver drilled and tapped for $85 with a local gunsmith, and l already have a bent bolt (one of them came with it - it's not an ex-sniper though).
So for those prices, it would be a much wiser investment to convert one to a sniper rifle rather than to buy one for $500.
The only problem l'm facing now is novelty - should l really "mess up" a classic 91/30 by scoping it? l've looked over several gun forums, and it seems to be frowned upon by more hardcore gun collectors, and l certainly wouldn't want to be laughed off the range.
Also, from what l understand (i came across this several times on different forums), the iron sights seem to be more accurate than the PU scopes - is this true?
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Your gun was literally produced by the millions, its already been refinished (destroying much of its potential collectors value), and frankly, Mosin Nagant rifles like yours are NEVER going to have much collector's value until a significant number of them are destroyed/lost/etc.
I'm all for the preservation of historical arms, but I say if you want to scope it, scope it.
If you're worried about dirty looks at the range, frankly, if you do it the way you say with an authentic-type side scope mount, I doubt anyone on the range would even know that it was a gunsmith job unless you told them (how could they?).
Pretty much anyone looking at it would assume it was an "ex-sniper" with a new scope, assuming they were even knowledgeable to make that distinction (which probably most aren't but the serious gun nuts).
Where I usually shoot, people generally run away from the Mosins since they are so loud!
In terms of your other question, I find it hard to believe that putting a scope on a 91/30 with a quality mount is going to DECREASE its practical accuracy. The only way to know is to try it.0 -
I know the purists hate the idea of modifying an old war rifle.
In the case of the 91/30, go ahead! There's millions of 'em out there.
Surely if you put a good scope on it you would get better accuracy than with iron sights.0 -
Thanks for the quick response! l know my rifle's very common, l just wanted someone elses' opinion first.
Also, l've never used an old-style scope before. Does the fact that it's a side mount mean l'll have to zero it more often than l do my more modern scopes?
As one more question, l've seen some people with a sniper Mosin-Nagant, and they use some material as a wrap and tie around the barrel and scope, like as was used by snipers. What kind of material/rope is most common? Does wrapping the barrel with a material cause it to retain more heat, as opposed to not using it? l assume it's more for show, but l really wanted the most authentic look to it.
Thanks again for the responses.0 -
quote:Originally posted by DracoOccisor
Also, l've never used an old-style scope before. Does the fact that it's a side mount mean l'll have to zero it more often than l do my more modern scopes?
I doubt it.
Your scope is a modern recreation of an older scope.
If it doesn't hold a zero, then something is wrong with it.
quote:As one more question, l've seen some people with a sniper Mosin-Nagant, and they use some material as a wrap and tie around the barrel and scope, like as was used by snipers. What kind of material/rope is most common? Does wrapping the barrel with a material cause it to retain more heat, as opposed to not using it? l assume it's more for show, but l really wanted the most authentic look to it.
The only authentic way to do this is with 1930s era Soviet Burlap and hempen ropes manufactured in the Ukraine. Note that you MUST use the six thread ropes with a RIGHT handed twist. If you use LEFT handed twist ropes, the ENTIRE effect will be thrown off. . .
OK. . .just kidding. This is silly stuff, coming right from that movie "Enemy at the Gates" (image above).
Camouflage wrapping, if used at all, would likely be whatever was most field expedient by the sniper in question at the time. If you want to do this, use your imagination.
I say, if you're in the forest, tie some twigs and leaves to your gun.
If you're in the desert, wrap it with a burlap sack.
If you're in the snow, wrap it with a white sheet.
Of course wrapping the barrel will prevent it from cooling as fast. So?
Also, unless you plan on also wearing a Ghillie suit and hiding in the brush when shooting, I'd suggest the most "authentic" barrel wrapping is probably ambient air (but that's just me).
Edit: I have no idea how to tell if a scope is original or not, but I would question the wisdom of putting a probably rare and possibly valuable like-new vintage WWII era Russian scope on a reworked $90 arsenal refurbished "beater" rifle.
Enemy at the Gates is a fictionalized Hollywood 2001 movie depicting a Russian WWII sniper (played by Jude Law, depicted above) and his "duel" with a German countersniper (played by Ed Harris). Its a fun movie, if not a particularly "great" one, but I think its a "must see" if you are into Mosin Nagant sniper rifles!
My father's father, by the way, was a decorated WWII Russian sniper, who was awarded the Order of Lenin for bravery during the Battle of Stalingrad. I'm sure if he were alive to see it, he'd get a kick out of both that movie, and the ready availability of $90 Mosin rifles.0 -
Alright, sounds good. Thanks.
Oh, also, l don't think my scope is a reproduction. l was told that it was an unusued original found in an arsenal, still in oil (l havent removed it yet either). ls there any way to be sure?
What's Enemy At The Gates, by the way?0 -
Story of a WW II sniper.
Beantown- where'd ya get the photo of Chewbacca without his belt?0 -
I bet Svetlana could teach you some tricks.0 -
Thanks for the response, Beantown. The scope doesn't appear to have a year on it, but it does have a soviet hammer, sickle, and star. lt says 91/30 on it, and has a serial number (sadly, of course, it doesn't match either of my Mosin serial numbers so l wonder if there will be any compatibility issues).
Anyone out there have any suggestions on how to find out if it's real or a reproduction?0 -
Your scope is a "real reproduction". Made at the same optik werks, and, perhaps better grind to the lenses, and more modern rubber seals (butyl vs. latex). Parts may even interchange. Google Vasily Zietsev, and take a look at his rifle on display at the museum, if you need a guide to authenticity. Svetlana's is obviously "period correct" also. 0 -
Um, Vasily's rifle uses a PE scope from what l can tell.
The one l have is like Svetlana's, the PU scope. Theres no rubber on it whatsoever.0 -
quote:Originally posted by DracoOccisor
Um, Vasily's rifle uses a PE scope from what l can tell.
The one l have is like Svetlana's, the PU scope. Theres no rubber on it whatsoever.
Kinda makes my point. No rubber? That means that the WWII russian optics people sealed their scope bodies with some sort of pitch.
Good chance it's not being used in modern manufacture. Best again, Joe0
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