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Bert...a couple Winchester questions (photos)

CS8161
I just came back from examining some firearms for an older woman whose husband passed away. She wants to sell them and I offered to list them over on the auction side. She had two winchester model 1894's, the first was a 30 WCF, 20" barrel, serial #658733, can you tell me what year it was made? The 2nd 1894 is a caliber 38-55, 26" barrel, and I can find no serial number on it! I can e-mail you some photos of both rifles. I told the woman, to the best of my knowledge, no 1894's were produced without a serial number. I could find no area where a serial number might have been ground off or polished out as the finish appears to be all original.
Thanks for any help! Here is a link to photos: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=140097338
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Comments

11 comments

Date Votes
  • Old-Colts
    It will be very interesting to hear an assessment of the Model 1894 without a serial number!!!!
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  • CS8161
    quote:Originally posted by Old-Colts
    It will be very interesting to hear an assessment of the Model 1894 without a serial number!!!!


    Unless I am looking in the wrong spot, I can't find it! On the bottom of the receiver, towards the front of the action, it has WRA CO but it looks like someone took a cross hatch tool and stamped over it. I told the woman to destroy the receiver and sell the pieces, barrel, hammer, trigger, wood, etc etc.
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  • Old-Colts
    quote:Originally posted by Chris8161
    ......it has WRA CO.......Chris, Bert can probably provide more information, but Renneberg, in his book on the Model 1894, says:

    If a gun was returned to the factory for rework or refinish and the serial number was worn away or otherwise indiscernible, the factory would apply a "W.R.A. CO." stamping to the area where the serial had originally been.
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  • glabray
    Old-Colts is correct. Sometimes the SN had been removed before it came back to Winchester, other times if the gun was to be refinished the SN might be polished off in the process. In addition, if a gun was returned to Winchester for repair and Winchester elected to replace the receiver it was marked WRA CO.
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  • GuvamintCheese
    quote:Originally posted by Old-Colts
    quote:Originally posted by Chris8161
    ......it has WRA CO.......Chris, Bert can probably provide more information, but Renneberg, in his book on the Model 1894, says:

    If a gun was returned to the factory for rework or refinish and the serial number was worn away or otherwise indiscernible, the factory would apply a "W.R.A. CO." stamping to the area where the serial had originally been.
    Does the cody letter reflect that I wonder?
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  • Bert H.
    Hello Chris,

    Serial 658733 was manufactured in March of 1914. The second rifle with the WRA Co stamped on it was returned to the factory with an obliterated serial number for refinishing, or the serial number was obliterated during the refinishing process. I have seen a few dozen different Winchesters with the marking you describe, and your advice to the owner to destroy the receiver and sell the remaining parts is not good. The rifle should be left as is.

    Edit: In looking at the pictures in the auction, the 38-55 Rifle was manufactured sometime during the 1904 - 1910 time period. I believe that your starting bid is slightly over optimistic considering the condition of the gun.
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  • Bert H.
    quote:Originally posted by cartod
    quote:Originally posted by Old-Colts
    quote:Originally posted by Chris8161
    ......it has WRA CO.......Chris, Bert can probably provide more information, but Renneberg, in his book on the Model 1894, says:

    If a gun was returned to the factory for rework or refinish and the serial number was worn away or otherwise indiscernible, the factory would apply a "W.R.A. CO." stamping to the area where the serial had originally been.
    Does the cody letter reflect that I wonder?


    Todd,

    It will not be possible to letter the gun without the serial number (which was overstamped with the "WRA CO").
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  • CS8161
    quote:Originally posted by Bert H.
    Hello Chris,

    Serial 658733 was manufactured in March of 1914. The second rifle with the WRA Co stamped on it was returned to the factory with an obliterated serial number for refinishing, or the serial number was obliterated during the refinishing process. I have seen a few dozen different Winchesters with the marking you describe, and your advice to the owner to destroy the receiver and sell the remaining parts is not good. The rifle should be left as is.


    Thank you Bert...am I in the ballpark value wise?? I don't know anything about pricing winchesters.
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  • Spider7115
    Wouldn't an FFL dealer receiving this rifle have a problem booking it in with an obliterated serial number? I could picture some dealers refusing to accept it.
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  • Bert H.
    quote:Originally posted by Spider7115
    Wouldn't an FFL dealer receiving this rifle have a problem booking it in with an obliterated serial number? I could picture some dealers refusing to accept it.


    I do not believe it would be a problem... simply log it in as a Winchester Model 1894 "WRA CO"
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  • GuvamintCheese
    quote:Originally posted by Bert H.
    quote:Originally posted by cartod
    quote:Originally posted by Old-Colts
    quote:Originally posted by Chris8161
    ......it has WRA CO.......Chris, Bert can probably provide more information, but Renneberg, in his book on the Model 1894, says:

    If a gun was returned to the factory for rework or refinish and the serial number was worn away or otherwise indiscernible, the factory would apply a "W.R.A. CO." stamping to the area where the serial had originally been.
    Does the cody letter reflect that I wonder?


    Todd,

    It will not be possible to letter the gun without the serial number (which was overstamped with the "WRA CO").
    Well Duh!...[:D]
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