41 long colt bore/groove
Anybody know the bore and groove diameter (and twist rate) of the USFA 41 long colt barrels? Am thinking of turning a well used Colt 3rd Gen SAA into one. I can do the cylinder work myslef, but would have to have a barrel made. I LOVE 41 LC in my Dads old thunderer, but am wondering what specs a modern maker used. Looks like I have 3 options: 1. get a barrel made to modern specs and shoot the hollow base bullet. (.386 hollow base thru a .402ish barrel) 2. Have one made to the old specs and shoot a hollow base bullet, or 3, have a barrel made to .386 groove and make a mould with a solid base bullet for it (.386 bullet thru a .386 barrel)(have made moulds before, a bit of work, but not really that hard). I would prefer shooting smokeless in it and thus may not be able to "bump up" the hollow base bullet if I go the original specs route.
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Why aggravate yourself and go to all the trouble and expense. As long as your going to be using a post war SAA as a platform, go with 38-40. It uses standard .400 diameter bullets. You could also have another cylinder set up for 10 mm which would enable you to shoot .40 S & W also.
Years back Ruger made a run of convertible Blackhawks in 38-40/10mm, their big time collectors items now.
I knew a guy years ago, who just for S & G use to load .45 ACP with Black Powder. Not a nickels difference between the 10MM and 41 LC when loaded with black.0 -
I know. But I could simply buy a 38-40. I REALLY like the 41 LC. Believe me, it is no aggravation. Gun tinkering is a hobby I ENJOY!! Plus I wind up with something different and unique. If everybody stuck to the best calibers a lot of the old time ones would be defunct and we'd all be shooting the same gun in the same caliber. In any case it is not about the best or the most convenient, it is about me wanting a 41 LC on a 3rd gen Colt. I intend to do it myself but am wondering what the only modern maker (USFA) did with their barrel size. I cant find the data on their website. 0 -
I believe the old 19th Century, BP, 41 LC, was one of the old "Heel Type" bullets. As you noted in your previous post under sized as compared to modern ammo. The modern made ones are right at .40 Cal. My WAG is that whats the groove dia. of the USFA barrels. Thats why I suggested 38-40/10mm in my previous post. 0 -
By doing the cylinder work yourself, do you mean reaming chambers? Or final fit? Or both?
Difficult scenario. Heeled bullets mandate the use of a non-stepped (true cylinder) chamber. If USFA chambers are straight-through in their .41LC's, then use heeled bullets and buy a USFA barrel and cylinder from their parts department.
If USFA .41LC cylinders are "stepped", also get both their cylinder and barrel, and size your bullets to as close to groove diameter as possible, as you will not be using heeled bullets.
Before anything is attempted, however, take your father's gun to a 'smith, and have the barrel and chambers slugged, and use those dimensions as a baseline for your work. Best I could do. Good Luck! Joe0 -
Hmmmm.....
Just so happens that I have a papered 1897 vintage early smokeless powder Colt SAA in 41LC. I have a bunch of handloads that were given to me with it enough to fill 2 cigar boxes, the Lyman 310 loader, and bullet mould for it. I could get some dimensions from a spare barrel the guy had for it, by slugging the bore for you.
Let me know what you think.
Consequently Ultramax does make cowboy loads for this that are smokeless, and they shoot well. I baught 6 boxes. I do shoot this 2 or 3 times a year.
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Thanks everybody. Dad has an 1877 Colt in 41 LC, so i know those dimensions (IIRC it is .406 groove or somewhere around there). I guess what I am trying to do with my little project is to "modernize" the 41LC just a little bit. I wont use heel bullets ....I may make my own mould and NOT hollowbase it. Example, if I can get a NEW barrel at .386, I would make my mould cast a .386 bullet. No need to make it a hollowbase if that is the case. If the new barrels are being made at .401 or so, then it is a different ball game and i must go with the hollowbase route. Old original barrel dimensions are of no use here as I am not going to use an old barrel. I need to know what the NEW made barrels are, and as far as I know the only mfgr making new 41LC is USFA. I may have to give them a call and see if anyone there knows.
My hollowbase bullets are .387. My hunch is USFA is using 38-40 barrels at .401.
By "doing the work myself" I mean everything...line boring an old cylinder open, then reaming it to 41 LC. I would have to make my own reamer I am sure, but being a straight shelled case that is no big deal (ie: time consuming but not hard work). I guess I should add here that I am a tool and die maker and have access to lots of cool equipment. Have done some reamer making and some chambering, nothing on a revolver yet. I am not dumb enough to think i wont make mistakes along the way...sometimes I make a real doozy!!...none the less..... Step 1 is coming up with what is out there...I know what the original stuff is, I need to know what the engineers at USFA came up with. Thought maybe someone out there in gunbroker-land may have purchased one and slugged the bore.0 -
As far as I know Colt used the same bore and groove dimensions for 38-40 & 41 Long Colt.
I'd be surprised to find USFA making a .386 barrel. If they do, you don't want to bore the chambers through.
41 LC is a nice maximum diameter bullet and case for the Thunder but it's a pipsqueak in the SAA using published loads .
With the 38-40 barrel you can use three cylinders to give you the option of 10 mm, 38-40 and 41 Long Colt.0 -
"I would have to make my own reamer I am sure, but being a straight shelled case that is no big deal "..........only if you use the original 'heeled' type bullets and larger bore dia., if you want to go with the .386" solid base bullets you would need a 'necked' chamber (case dia. down to bullet dia.) 0 -
I dont want to shoot 10mm or 38-40, just 41 LC. I know what Colt did back in the days when they made them, just wondering what USFA does now. The phone call will be made later today, hopefully they will be able to provide details.
By being a straight walled case I meant I dont have to make a bottleneck reamer and cut a chamber that headspaces on the shoulder, obviously I could put a bottleneck in there for the smaller diameter bullet versus the larger diameter case. Another method is to line bore the throats to size, then make the reamer to cut the straight walled case with a pilot at throat size. Didnt intend to get into the details of HOW I would do it, just somehow thought I could actually get the data I am looking for first!0 -
After you've finished the project, get back with us. Let us know how it turned out. Best, Joe 0 -
quote:Originally posted by dandak1
I dont want to shoot 10mm or 38-40, just 41 LC. I know what Colt did back in the days when they made them, just wondering what USFA does now. The phone call will be made later today, hopefully they will be able to provide details.
By being a straight walled case I meant I dont have to make a bottleneck reamer and cut a chamber that headspaces on the shoulder, obviously I could put a bottleneck in there for the smaller diameter bullet versus the larger diameter case. Another method is to line bore the throats to size, then make the reamer to cut the straight walled case with a pilot at throat size. Didnt intend to get into the details of HOW I would do it, just somehow thought I could actually get the data I am looking for first!
Have you checked any of the Ultramax loads to see what they are using...heeled or straight bullet?
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