Colt 1911 Help!! dated 1918
I need some help with a Government Issue Colt 1911 that has a manufacture date of 1918.
Here is what I know for fact. My great grandfather was in WWI and was wounded on two separate occasions the second time ended up being fatal and he died late in 1918. The U.S. Flag was received by my great grandmother and a few of soldiers that served with my great grandfather presented my grandfather (he was 11 at that time) with a Colt 1911 and US holster (G&K, 1918, A.G.). My grandfather used this 45 every time he went hunting until 1990s when he stopped going hunting because of him age and health (he was in his mid 80s). He passed this Colt 45 to me when I retired from the Air Force. He told me that the gun has never been worker on and all the parts are the original.
That is all I know about this Colt 1911's history. Here is what I can see and find on this gun and what I have found out from a lot of internet searching.
The slide's markings: The left slide is marked
PATENTED APR 20, 1897, SEPT, 9, 1902
DEC19, 1905, FEB, 14, 1911AUG, 19, 1913
It has a free running colt (no circle around the colt). Then the markings show.
COLT'S PT. F. A. MFG. CO.
HARTFORD, CT.U.S.A.
That is the only marking on the left side of the slide.
The right side has only "MODEL OF 1911, U.S.ARMY"
The frame's markings in clued: the left side.
UNITED STATES PROPERY (starting on the front edge.)
The left side of the frame near trigger guard and above the magazine release is a military acceptance stamp of an eagle head S11, no other markings on the left side of the frame.
The right side of the frame only has the serial number No 350XXX between the handle and the slide lock hole.
The barrel is marked with an H and P.
I cannot find any other markings on the outside of this Colt. So I gather it has never been inspect by any armory for repairs or inspection.
The markings that I found when it was disassembled are as follows.
The inside of the slide has the letters N, D, and the number 4.
The only markings on the barrel are the H and P on the top of the barrel.
On the frame around the disconnector hole at the 12 o'clock position is an H, around the 2o'clock position G, at the 4/5 o'clock position R, then at the 6 o'clock position S. That is all I could find on the inside of the frame.
From my research I found out that Colt did commercial transferred to the government. The "S" stamp at the 6 o'clock position from the disconnector hole indicates it was indeed a commercial gun. On a standard 1918 government pistol the position would have a "G". Other marks indicate H=Provisional Ordnance inspector mark, G= Government Issue, and R=Colt inspectors mark.
I am not looking to sell this Colt. It is an outstanding shooting gun, about 50% of the bluing (black) has rubbed off, the grips are original 15 rows of diamonds in between the two larger diamonds, and it has two original two-tone clips, no marking on the clips. The holster is in great shape; it was only used to store this Colt when not being used.
So the question is: what do all of these markings mean? Did I get the correct information for the internet on the few of the markings that I found? What is the value of a Colt like this? And any advice on how to keep this gun in good order. Like: should I get it reblued, replace the grip to keep the original ones from getting marked up, and so on.
I would like to thank everyone for any help they can provide me!
Here is what I know for fact. My great grandfather was in WWI and was wounded on two separate occasions the second time ended up being fatal and he died late in 1918. The U.S. Flag was received by my great grandmother and a few of soldiers that served with my great grandfather presented my grandfather (he was 11 at that time) with a Colt 1911 and US holster (G&K, 1918, A.G.). My grandfather used this 45 every time he went hunting until 1990s when he stopped going hunting because of him age and health (he was in his mid 80s). He passed this Colt 45 to me when I retired from the Air Force. He told me that the gun has never been worker on and all the parts are the original.
That is all I know about this Colt 1911's history. Here is what I can see and find on this gun and what I have found out from a lot of internet searching.
The slide's markings: The left slide is marked
PATENTED APR 20, 1897, SEPT, 9, 1902
DEC19, 1905, FEB, 14, 1911AUG, 19, 1913
It has a free running colt (no circle around the colt). Then the markings show.
COLT'S PT. F. A. MFG. CO.
HARTFORD, CT.U.S.A.
That is the only marking on the left side of the slide.
The right side has only "MODEL OF 1911, U.S.ARMY"
The frame's markings in clued: the left side.
UNITED STATES PROPERY (starting on the front edge.)
The left side of the frame near trigger guard and above the magazine release is a military acceptance stamp of an eagle head S11, no other markings on the left side of the frame.
The right side of the frame only has the serial number No 350XXX between the handle and the slide lock hole.
The barrel is marked with an H and P.
I cannot find any other markings on the outside of this Colt. So I gather it has never been inspect by any armory for repairs or inspection.
The markings that I found when it was disassembled are as follows.
The inside of the slide has the letters N, D, and the number 4.
The only markings on the barrel are the H and P on the top of the barrel.
On the frame around the disconnector hole at the 12 o'clock position is an H, around the 2o'clock position G, at the 4/5 o'clock position R, then at the 6 o'clock position S. That is all I could find on the inside of the frame.
From my research I found out that Colt did commercial transferred to the government. The "S" stamp at the 6 o'clock position from the disconnector hole indicates it was indeed a commercial gun. On a standard 1918 government pistol the position would have a "G". Other marks indicate H=Provisional Ordnance inspector mark, G= Government Issue, and R=Colt inspectors mark.
I am not looking to sell this Colt. It is an outstanding shooting gun, about 50% of the bluing (black) has rubbed off, the grips are original 15 rows of diamonds in between the two larger diamonds, and it has two original two-tone clips, no marking on the clips. The holster is in great shape; it was only used to store this Colt when not being used.
So the question is: what do all of these markings mean? Did I get the correct information for the internet on the few of the markings that I found? What is the value of a Colt like this? And any advice on how to keep this gun in good order. Like: should I get it reblued, replace the grip to keep the original ones from getting marked up, and so on.
I would like to thank everyone for any help they can provide me!
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You did a good job of looking up your pistol markings. The correct barrel does have the letters H P but the location will tell you if correct for serial number of the frame time frame you should be able to read both letters by pointing the pistol forward and looking at the chamber area the H should be near the rear of the chamber and the p should be about midway between the front and rear of the chamber.and visible with the slide closed. Great family Piece keep it AS IS do not refinish. 0 -
Sounds like you have most of the critical information pinned down. Most of the marks not identified are probably obscure internal inspectors' marks, not likely to be identifiable after 90 years. The (Eagle)S11 is a generic government inspector's mark used late in WWI instead of initials.
You might check the orientation of the H P on the barrel to confirm that it is correct and original as stated by Grandpa.
My main source of information, not being a collector or speculator with the big name reference books is at:
http://www.coolgunsite.com/
50% finish is pretty worn, but 100% factory or big name restorer refinish is Zero original finish, which is what really counts. I would NOT get it reblued. A nice commercial reblue would cost about $200 and reduce the resale value of the gun by half.
I can't guess a dollar value, Blue Book #30 says $1000 which sounds light to me, what with the commercial transfer stamp. But if you are not selling, what does it matter?0 -
You've covered the reliability. Dependable shooter over the years.
You've covered the pedigree. Civilian transfer to military. All period correct parts.
You've covered the value. Priceless. (If it weren't a part of your heritage, I'd list it starting at $900 at auction).
Got pictures?0 -
Others have correctly advised you not to refinish this fine Colt; I might add never let it reside in the holster again. Leather traps moisture ultimately causing the steel to rust and pit. And every time that fine old Colt is slid in and out of the holster, a little more of that irreplaceable blue is worn off. The only Colts I own that are allowed in the same room with a holster are the stainless models; the "blues" don't know holsters even exist. -Asa 0 -
Here is a Newbie question.
How do I post photos of my 45 to this forum?
I would like to reply to the two question I have received sofar.
I can see the H and P on the barrel with the slide closed, the P is about in the middle and the H is at the end nere the hammer.
The other answer is also a correction to my first post.
I was told that my 45 finish is becoming a brownishblack patina color and is at about 80 to 85% there. That this is common on 1917 and 1918s because Colt rushed their production and the finshed suffered making these the "Black Army Colt 1911s".0
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