270 WSM Details
Hey guys -
What is the case of this round original made of? I'm told it's a 300 H&H does that sound right?
What would the difference be between this 270 WSM and a 270 Win Ackley Improved?
I see that this isn't a real popular round but it seems like it has great ballistics even from the factory rounds and reloads done right should be better...
Why isn't it popular? Is it because it is a new load (2001 or 2002) and there are so many "old school" shooters or does it truely not perform that well?
From what I have heard it is pretty accurate and the recoil is about what a .30-06 puts out... Would that be a safe statement?
Thanks guys
What is the case of this round original made of? I'm told it's a 300 H&H does that sound right?
What would the difference be between this 270 WSM and a 270 Win Ackley Improved?
I see that this isn't a real popular round but it seems like it has great ballistics even from the factory rounds and reloads done right should be better...
Why isn't it popular? Is it because it is a new load (2001 or 2002) and there are so many "old school" shooters or does it truely not perform that well?
From what I have heard it is pretty accurate and the recoil is about what a .30-06 puts out... Would that be a safe statement?
Thanks guys
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Essentially it was the answer to a question never asked. Yes the sort magnums are more efficient. Enough so to justify selling your old rifles to buy new? Not unless you are on top of every fad. There are millions of .270's out there, and few guys are dumping them for a few more feet per second in a short action round.
you could say we are old and set in our ways, resistent to change and out of date. Or you could say we are practical and see no reason to spend money on the next trendy almost was that the marketers trot out.0 -
Thanks He Dog - appreciate your response -
The knowledge of an old shooter outweights the energy of a young shooter any day of the week...
I learn a lot on these forums that is why I come here... I always give the forum the credit it deserves.
Thanks0 -
I got a 300WSM when they came out, my uncle was a diehard 270 shooter and had been for years. He scoffed at the notion that I got a WSM and told me all sorts of reasons why I should of just bought a .270.
Jump ahead a few years later, some of his friends gave him a rifle in 270WSM. I haven't seen his old trusty Remington 700 .270 since. After he got his new rifle and fell head over heels for it, I gave him a whole list of why it should of just thrown the gun away after he opened the box. He didn't have much to say, but I can tell you he's sold on it now.0 -
Camelot43,
If you don't already have a 270 Winchester, then the 270 WSM is the one to get...but you need a 26 inch barrel to realize its full potential, if not a 28 inch barrel. If you have a 270 Winchester, then don't sell it, or trade it. Unlike the 300WSM parent, the 270WSM bests the regular 270 Winchester by about 150-200 FPS. The 300WSM duplicates the ballistics of the 300 Winchester facory loadings, but can not keep up off the reloading bench. There is no replacement for cubic inches.
That said, the factory loads to get their efficiency for the WSM's, use proprietary propellants, which are not available to the handloaders. It is very hard to best factory performance, as the factory loads are loaded on the ragged edge.
Best0 -
Camelot43,
The original parent cartridge case is the .404 Jeffery which is a beltless bottleneck case as opposed to the .300 H&H which is a belted bottleneck case. The .404 Jeffery case was used as the jumping off point for the Remington Ultra Mag (RUM) cartridges as well as the WSM, RSAUM and the WSSM cases. Obviously there were some significant design changes but the basic concept is still there.
The .270 WSM not only performs well with factory ammunition but can be fine tuned for slightly better performance and accuracy by handloading. Contrary to some opinions, this cartridge is 250 FPS and up to 300 FPS faster than the .270 Win. when loaded with comparable bullets. This may not seem significant to some but when you examine the ballistic charts, the difference mounts up in the energy department where it really can make a significant difference when hunting.
.270 WSM
WSM vs. Belted
Most of these charts never translate well into forum code but you can use this link to the Winchester website to run any number of comparisons that you wish.
http://www.winchester.com/products/catalog/rifle.aspx
The 3 columns below are for the .270 Win/140, .270 WSM/150, .270 Win/150. You can straighten them out as you see fit or read down from the top.
Cartridge: 270 Winchester 270 WSM 270 Winchester
Bullet Wt. Grs.: 140 150 150
Bullet Type: AccuBondT CTr XP3r XP3r
CXP Guide No.: Game Guide 2 - Light Thin Skin Game Guide 3 - Large Heavy Game Game Guide 3 Large Heavy Game
Barrel Length: (in) - - -
Velocity in Feet Per Second (fps)
Muzzle 2950 3120 2950
100 2751 2926 2763
200 2560 2740 2583
300 2378 2561 2411
400 2203 2389 2245
500 2035 2224 2086
Energy in Foot Pounds (ft-lbs.)
Muzzle 2705 3242 2898
100 2352 2850 2542
200 2038 2499 2223
300 1757 2184 1936
400 1508 1901 1679
500 1287 1648 1449
Trajectory, Short Range Yards
50 -0.2 -0.3 -0.2
100 0 0 0
150 -0.9 - -
200 -3.1 -2.6 -3.1
250 -6.6 - -
300 -11.5 -9.8 -11.3
400 - - -
500 - - -
Trajectory, Long Range Yards
100 1.6 1.3 1.5
150 1.4 - -
200 0 0 0
250 -2.7 - -
300 -6.9 -5.9 -6.7
400 -19.9 -17.1 -19.5
500 -40.1 -34.5 -39.1
Remington has a better format for comparison in my opinion so here is the link for your to experiment with as you have time.
http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/choose_specific_loads.aspx?c1=17&c2=58&c3=
There are some very good articles written about the .270 WSM as well as the entire WSM family of cartridges. I've shot all of them along with the Remington versions, the RSAUMs and several wildcat creations. I'm currently working with the .325 WSM in a hunting configuration.
Best.0 -
Hey guys -
I bought that 270 WSM last week... I did not replace anything in my collection as it is very small - my other rifle is my trusty Ruger .30-06... Very excited to be adding anything to my cabinet no matter how small it is...
As a testament to the Ruger M77 MKII in 270 WSM NOTselling well - Here it is 2009 - I found one new in the box at our local gunshow in Portland, OR... Serial number says it was manufactured in 2003... Poor rifle has probably been to more gun shows than I have!
At any rate - despite my initial worries and weighing my options I chose to buy the rifle... Got it for $480 after all the B.S. fees...
Took it to the range yesterday - When I first bought it I was nervous about the 22" barrel after reading all the reviews and comments about needing atleast a 24" barrel if not 26" - I even got quotes from barrel makers to build me a custom barrel for it but, not having enough time to actually do it before hunting season I decided to see how it shoots.
I shot factory ammo - Federal 140gr. Accubond
Now I did not have a chronograph to tell you the details out the muzzle but here are my results:
Started at the 25 yard mark, moved to 50 and finished at 100... It shot a 0.50 group at 100 yards on factory ammo straight out of the box... Bought it - mounted my scope on it and took it to the range 1/2 inch group no problem at all...
Now my questions remain - should I still put a 24" or 26" barrel could I even do better off the bench?
I plan on reloading my brass with the same Nosler Accubond 140gr. should I see better results with my handloads? Or am I feeding it what it likes and don't bother?
Should I even touch it? or it is fine where it is?0 -
I would say you got a good one there.
When I said at least 26", I was not so much referring to the accuracy end of it, but more the ability to extract top speeds out of it with slower burning powder like IMR 4350, IMR 7828, and Retumbo type powders. I would not change the barrel. However, if you think that group is tite, if that rifle were to have some good TLC, like pillar bedding, a free floated barrel, and a good trigger job to give you a good creep free pull of around 2 1/2 pounds, I can almost assure you that the accuraacy would be even better. I have yet to see a factory rifle that didn't improve when I have done those things to it.
But stick with that barrel.
Best0 -
Camelot43,
"It shot a 0.50 group at 100 yards on factory ammo straight out of the box..."
Congratulations! News like that is worth celebrating.
However, one excellent group does not make this an excellent AND consistent rifle. When a rifle pounds out 1/2" group after 1/2" group, day in and day out, then you really have something.
The alterations suggested have the potential of helping your rifle be consistent over the long haul and not just the occasional bragging group.
I wouldn't change the barrel just yet. Take it hunting and continue to shoot groups to see what level of consistency you can achieve before thinking about changing out the barrel.
Best.0 -
A couple of issues killing the .270 WSM is that the .270 Win was so good and the .270 Wby is all that and more. The .270 WSM fits in just below the Wby but with a lot less powder and better barrel life.
The thing I'm waiting for in this caliber, and so far two bullet manufacturers have addressed the issue, is high BC bullets. So far Berger has tossed one bullet in the ring with their 150 gr. VLD that is kind of lacking in BC...but an attempt nevertheless. And, Wildcat with a few ULD offerings. Wildcat bullets was bought by a guy in Elko, NV and so far we are waiting, hopefully, that he can get things up and running.0 -
nononsense - I agree with you - being that only a box and a half was shot through it nothing can be proven and I always have to do my part as well! I will leave it for now at least through hunting season but I am happy with the initial results out of the box but it sure would be nice to have a longer barrel it is tempting...
Sandwarrior - I am curious how the 270 WBY is all the 270 WSM wanted to be? I am not a hardcore handloader so I don't have the knowledge of what can be gotten out of this caliber. But I did just peak at the federal ammo ballistics catalog thing and it looks like according to federal the 270 WSM out performs the WBY in every category except wind drift out of factory ammo.
What have the results been from handloads?
Also - I would love to see a high B.C. bullet from anyone for the 270!0
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