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Winchester model 1897 trench gun

James Hoxie
I'm stumped so I thought I'd ask the experts. I've been asked 2 questions about my Trench Gun that are beyond my knowledge/expertise.
Q1: Does the gun have "import marks?" what is an import mark and what would it look like on the gun if it had one?
Q2: Has the gun undergone an "arsenal rebuild?" I'm told that some guns may have been rebuilt at the factory using various parts out of a parts bin. The thought being to get a gun into working order without regard to originality. For example stocks or hand guards being replaced. Is there any way of knowing if a gun has been through an arsenal rebuild?
Thanks for your help!
Roy
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Comments

10 comments

Date Votes
  • James Hoxie
    Got a gun from my brother he gave it to me said he didnt want it? it has a model 1897...US and a bomb logo on the right side..some wp on the barrel and main frame..whats it worth?oh the serial number is E693XXX
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  • perry shooter
    James without pictures we can tell you little These old Winchester are like antique cars one that is 95% original finish and all original parts is worth 10 times as much as one that is "good "condition with refinished metal and maybe a replaced stock. One Note on the Flaming bomb if the other parts are original this could increase the value 2 or 3 times over a standard model.

    EDit G.H.D. is inspector. Lt.Col. Guy H. Drewry WW II as Bert H. stated.
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  • Bert H.
    Hello James,

    Is it a Trench Gun, or a Riot Gun?

    It is in the correct serial number range for the government contract Model 1897s delived to the U.S. Army immediately following WW I.
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  • James Hoxie
    yes it is a trench gun as far as i can tell...it it missing the heat sheild and lug but all is original and no one has touched this old gun it still has most of the blueing and looks to be well used! ill try to get some pics up
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  • James Hoxie
    I dont see a choke? it does have cyl...and the a bunch of patent dates with the 12 GA stamp....on the stock it is marked GHD with another logo under it?
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  • Bert H.
    quote:Originally posted by James Hoxie
    I dont see a choke? it does have cyl...and the a bunch of patent dates with the 12 GA stamp....on the stock it is marked GHD with another logo under it?


    Hello James,

    The "CYL" is the choke marking and it is correct. All factory original Trench and Riot Guns were cylinder bore (no choke).

    The stock marking "GHD" tells me that it has a non-original butt stock on it. The "GHD" marking is only found an the WW II (late production) guns.
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  • James Hoxie
    Hmmmm i wonder if it was used in the ww1 and carried over into the ww11 wars? Just a thoughti guess i need to read up on this type of gun.
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  • glabray
    The main difference between a trench gun and a riot gun is the presence of the combination heat shield, bayonet lug, front sling swivel unit. As I recall, original WWI gun shields had 6 rows of perforations and later ones had four rows. Reproductions are available but all the ones I have seen have the four rows. The bayonet lug fits a 1917 pattern bayonet (Enfield type). Some M97s were used in WWII and we even used a few in Vietnam. Not surprisingly, many were reworked at lest once by a government ordinance facility. When a gun was reworked, the facility stamped it's initials in the stock so your stock could be original.

    Just a side note: The M97s reputation as a "trench sweeper" wasn't so much based on the spread of the shot as on its rapid fire ability. At trench distances the shot pattern didn't have much chance to open up. Rather, the reputation was based on the M97s lack of a trigger disconnect. Remember that in WWI most doughboys were armed with a bolt action rifle requiring several motions to remove a fired shell and prepare the gun to fire again. With a M97, a soldier could simply hold back the trigger and pump the forend. Each time a round chambered the gun would fire. This gave a much more rapid rate of fire than could be obtained with a 1903 or 1917 rifle.
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  • givette
    James: When you figger'out how to get photos onto this forum (took me several tries, HA!) Start a new post. Then you will have a fresh ten replies for us to respond to. This forum will lock out soon after ten replies have been submitted. Now..

    Dead ringer info: Trenchgun barrels were made slightly thicker, to take the strain of bayonet combat. Once the heat shield and bayo lug combo has been removed, a true trench will have three little "dimples" on the bottom of the barrel, which were used as indexing marks for the bayo lug mount. If no "dimples", then best conclusion is that you have a US property Winchester riot gun.

    They also came from the factory without any front sight on the barrel. The front sight bead was on the bayo lug on trenchguns. You may have a trenchgun with a front bead installed on the barrel by someone when they removed the bayo lug (if it in fact was a trenchgun to start with) Again, the clincher will be the three "dimples" to determine what you have. Best, Joe
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  • James Hoxie
    it has the dimples and is a true trench gun....ill work on the pictures and start a new thread.
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