Colt SAA
Hi. What, if any are the differences in the cylinder locking bolt between the second and third generation colt SAA? Thanks.
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From what little I know about these guns the 1st Generation and early 2nd Gen(about up to SER#39000sa)are of the finest quality.
I have read that the post 1965 guns were beginning to diminish in
quality and the decline continued through the years.
Can someone tell me how the quality of the current manufactured compares to the others?
Thank You0 -
I am very sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but someone will tell you. The best thing it has going for it is that it is 45 caliber. From the serial number, it looks like it is an intermediate to late blackpowder frame. However, the nickel plating, and shorter barrel have rendered a potentially valuable SAA, into about a $1000.00-1500.00 shooter. In the original formation, in 70% remaining finnish, you would have been looking at potentially 10x that.
Best
EDIT 1
About the most valuable item on that colt is the Ivory grips. They appear to be real Ivory. Yes, thay have some miles on, and need some TLC, but look to be in decent shape. They too appear not to be the correct grips that came with this SAA. What does the factory lettr say? The grip frames appear to be mismatched too.0 -
The S.N. dates to the mid 1880's. Whoever refinished it wasn't a old world craftsman. Appears it's only value would be as a "shooter", as tsr noted.
Check the auctions for actual selling prices for "shooter" grade/quality SAA's, for a ballpark on value.0 -
I agree with the above posts. If the conversion wasn't done at the factory, don't waste your time trying to figure out who did as it won't make any difference in value. It is what it is. 0 -
Really appreciate all the help. I figured the value would be dinged quite a bit because of the modifications to the gun. This gives me a starting point, I figure I will list it for auction in the next couple of weeks. Again thanks for all the help. 0 -
The collector vlaue is all but lost, but there are plenty of Cowboy Action shooters who'll jump all over an old SAA and not care if it original or not. They will just want to shoot it and be able to brag to their buddies about packing a First Generation SAA. 0 -
Looks like they scrubbed the dates pretty good,[B)],,, man, I feel your pain,,,what an item if original.............nmabu 0 -
Too bad it has been altered; in my opinion tsr1965 pretty much has the value correct.
However, it is hard to say what has really been done to your Colt and where. If you
have stated the serial number correctly (102863), then it would date to 1883 which should
be what is listed on your archive letter. What is the actual shipping date on
your letter and where was it shipped?
If your gun left the Colt factory in 1883 then it wouldn't have had the Rampant Colt
on the left frame flat just behind the 3 line patent dates and the left side of the
barrel wouldn't have had the chambering stamped like yours does; just the caliber
("45 CAL" in this case) stamped on the left front triggerguard bow like I believe it is.
I'd say the barrel was probably replaced and not cut because of the marking. Does your
barrel have a one line or two line address on the top of the barrel?
From what little I can see of the hammer knurling, it doesn't appear correct for an 1883 Colt.
Your gun should have coarse hand cut knurling with a border around it and a slash below
the border closest to the firing pin.
Are there any other markings on the front and/or back of the triggerguard bow on
the right side? Are there any markings underneath the grips on the grip frame or backstrap?
Are there any markings on the front or back of the cylinder? Is the serial number stamped on
the bottom of the frame, triggerguard, and backstrap; all three places? Are there any
markings in addition to what is visible in the two pictures? These answers might help
determine who did any of this work.
Interestingly the cylinder doesn't show typical signs of buffing and refinishing; the
flutes are sharp at the edges, the bolt stops and approaches are sharp with no dishing,
and the cylinder beveling is about correct for a gun of this period. Kind of
interesting when you consider how much the patent dates were buffed!!!!
The addition of the Rampant Colt on the left frame flat is a real curiosity! That style
of Rampant Colt wasn't used by Colt until about the end of 1912. Hard to say who stamped
it there if Colt didn't!
UPDATE 1:
wmayville,
Thanks for the added photos. I'm going to study the them some more, but four things stand out.
1. The late ship date could explain the caliber marking on the barrel.
Your Colt might not have been assembled until 3 years after the frame was
stamped.
2. The marking on the right rear triggerguard bow looks like an ampersand ( & ).
If so, your Colt was probably reworked, at some time, at the Colt Factory, a good thing!
The Ivory grips might have been added at that time. I'm surprised there
isn't a rework number stamped in several places on the gun.
3. If the Colt was reworked at the Colt Factory that might explain the
Rampant Colt stamped on the left frame flat.
4. The barrel was probably shortened, not replaced; again, possibly at the Colt Factory.
UPDATE 2:
I do believe your Colt has made a trip back to the Colt Factory based on the ampersand
marking, but for what purpose I don't know. Perhaps rework, perhaps refinish, but I
believe it would have gone back to Colt after 1912. From what I see there are some
puzzling and contradictory things with your Colt. This is one that would be nice
to have in your hands for a thorough examination.
Colt didn't begin stamping the chambering on the left side of the barrel until
about 1889 I believe, so even with the late ship date (1886) for your gun it
is still out of range for that marking. Based on the one line address, the
barrel could have been changed by Colt when it went back to the factory and
then shortened later. However, there are known and correct 4 3/4 inch barrels
that were stamped in error with a one line address as well as 5 1/2 and 7 1/2
inch barrels that were stamped in error with a 2 line address. I can't see
the front sight profile clearly, but it looks like it might have the larger blade
that dates to post about 1912.
It appears from the added photos that the hammer knurling is the later borderless
rolled-on knurling, which was started some time after 1909. So, it appears that
the hammer was replaced as well.
This thread will automatically lock when it reaches 10 responses; sometimes a
few more. If there are still questions in your mind, just start a new thread
and reference this one. Be sure to post clear in focus high resolution
pictures that are sized to 800, 900, or 1024 width, but no wider.0 -
oldcolts,
The ship date was April 1, 1886 to E.C. Meacham Arms Company. It was in a shipment of 25 guns. The barrel has a one line address also. The only markings that are not shown are the stamped serial numbers on the bottom of the stock frame and in front of the trigger. I added a couple more pics of the serial numbers, thanks for all the help.
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