Springfield M1 Garand 308 Navy Conversion
I just bought a rifle from a guy that is selling his collection. This was the only one that I could afford as he had some very nice pieces that he's collected over the years. I'm checking to see if the information that he provided me is accurate or not. I bought this gun to use it as a shooter. I don't have any 30-06, but I do have several 308's. Would you review this information and tell me if it sounds right? I'm also wanting to know what the gun might be worth.
My mistake, the numbers don't match, they are all SA.
Here's the information that the guy gave me on the gun.
Springfield M1 Garand
Serial number 3623XXX made 3/1945
308 Caliber
Group of about 30,000 converted for Navy use in 1960's
To 7.62 from 30-06
Special barrels Springfield
No. 1168514 3/1966
Contract to H&R
Check collectible book 46 - 48
Any ideas or opinions would be appreciated.
Thanks
My mistake, the numbers don't match, they are all SA.
Here's the information that the guy gave me on the gun.
Springfield M1 Garand
Serial number 3623XXX made 3/1945
308 Caliber
Group of about 30,000 converted for Navy use in 1960's
To 7.62 from 30-06
Special barrels Springfield
No. 1168514 3/1966
Contract to H&R
Check collectible book 46 - 48
Any ideas or opinions would be appreciated.
Thanks
0
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The Navy did some conversions, but, it was met with indifferent success. The spacer block had a tendency to work loose. 0 -
Let me see if I understand this.
You bought a rifle you know nothing about, with a serial number that you want to keep secret, from a guy you don't know, for a price you are unwilling to disclose, & in a condition you don't want to divulge. But, you want us to tell you what you really have & if you got screwed, based solely on the seller's vague description?
I don't think so.
We'd be glad to help, but you've got to work with us. We need to see photos of the rifle, including all markings (especially those on the right side of the barrel visible only when the op rod is back). If you take photos & the markings can't be seen, then they won't be good enough for us to help you. Instructions for posting photos can be found on a sticky near the top of the 1st forum page.
Neal0 -
Hi Neal,
I am not interested in selling this gun, just asking the questions based on the information available. You being a gun expert should be well aware of the possibility of someone taking the serial number and reporting it stolen to law enforcement. Having said that, I have checked the serial number and the gun was made in 45. My interest is whether or not this sounds legitimate.
Sorry if you weren't clear on what I was asking. So, thank you for your feedback, I know that your time must be extremely valuable.
Thanks again.
quote:Originally posted by nmyers
Let me see if I understand this.
You bought a rifle you know nothing about, with a serial number that you want to keep secret, from a guy you don't know, for a price you are unwilling to disclose, & in a condition you don't want to divulge. But, you want us to tell you what you really have & if you got screwed, based solely on the seller's vague description?
I don't think so.
We'd be glad to help, but you've got to work with us. We need to see photos of the rifle, including all markings (especially those on the right side of the barrel visible only when the op rod is back). If you take photos & the markings can't be seen, then they won't be good enough for us to help you. Instructions for posting photos can be found on a sticky near the top of the 1st forum page.
Neal0 -
lkn, sorry if my response bothered you, but I intended no offense.
No, my time is of little value. But, I choose to spend it on this forum, where I can continue learning about guns, &, on rare occasion, assist others.
No, I am not aware of the possibility of someone falsely claiming that a gun whose serial number they had seen had been stolen from them; in fact, it has never happened. Ever.
Yes, your receiver was made around May, 1945. Maybe. I have seen 3 M1 rifles in the last year with altered serial numbers; without photos, I can't tell for sure what you have. The rest of your rifle, who knows? You state numbers match on parts; that is a problem, as M1 rifles do not have matching numbers unless they have been modified by a foreign military arsenal. Does your rifle have an import stamp?
Does the information given on the tag match known contracts? No, but it's close.
Was your barrel made by Springfield Armory & installed by H&R? I don't know; you didn't tell us how it is marked.
Maybe others are willing to give you a value estimate, but, at this point, I really have no way of telling what you have.
Neal0 -
Thanks for your information badsbsnf81.
quote:Originally posted by badsbsnf81
The Navy did some conversions, but, it was met with indifferent success. The spacer block had a tendency to work loose.0 -
Hey Neal,
Instead of trying to determine how high your level of expertise is (internet master) I was looking for some legitimate information, like this. This is what someone was nice enough to send me.
Bless your heart, you hang in there buddy, someone is going to look up to you one day.
Thanks again
The books that I have are mostly for the WWII Garands and even though your serial number definitely indicates the gun was made in 1945, the alledged Navy modifcation was done in the 1960s so is not covered in my books. Scott Duff (US martial arms expert) has a book out on post war Garands that will probably have information on this conversion. I don't know about the production numbers but I remember there was an Army designation and a Navy designation for Garands converted to 7.62. The Army designation was &35 (I think) and the Navy was Mk2 Mod2 (I think - my memory is not as good as it once was but I'm as good once as I ever was).
Looks like he was referencing a book by someone with the page numbers listed. At any rate, if you have a few hundred for the rifle with matching part nos. / SA marked parts for that period, you did alright. I love my old Garands and they are an absolute pleasure to shoot.
quote:Originally posted by nmyers
lkn, sorry if my response bothered you, but I intended no offense.
No, my time is of little value. But, I choose to spend it on this forum, where I can continue learning about guns, &, on rare occasion, assist others.
No, I am not aware of the possibility of someone falsely claiming that a gun whose serial number they had seen had been stolen from them; in fact, it has never happened. Ever.
Yes, your receiver was made around May, 1945. Maybe. I have seen 3 M1 rifles in the last year with altered serial numbers; without photos, I can't tell for sure what you have. The rest of your rifle, who knows? You state numbers match on parts; that is a problem, as M1 rifles do not have matching numbers unless they have been modified by a foreign military arsenal. Does your rifle have an import stamp?
Does the information given on the tag match known contracts? No, but it's close.
Was your barrel made by Springfield Armory & installed by H&R? I don't know; you didn't tell us how it is marked.
Maybe others are willing to give you a value estimate, but, at this point, I really have no way of telling what you have.
Neal0 -
Under the "any ideas or opinions" heading, while I can't give any info on your specific rifle I can add that I have an Oct 42 Springfield M1 that has been converted to 308, certainly not by the Navy. It is very accurate and reliable. I've outfitted it with an adjustable peep rear and a Garand specific globe front sight, although I just turned 51 my vision still hovers around 20/15 & 20/20 so I regularly use the thing and get nice groups. If you reload, IMR 4064 and IMR 4895 are pretty sure winners.
Just to clear up what I think is a miscommunication, the "spacer" that on occasion was supposed to have worked loose was a chamber insert, not the spacer found in the mag well. I suppose the spacer in the mag well can work loose, not heard of it happening though.0 -
Thank you, I bought it to shoot it, so I can't wait to try some loads in it. I think that it will be fun.
Thanks
quote:Originally posted by dfletcher
Under the "any ideas or opinions" heading, while I can't give any info on your specific rifle I can add that I have an Oct 42 Springfield M1 that has been converted to 308, certainly not by the Navy. It is very accurate and reliable. I've outfitted it with an adjustable peep rear and a Garand specific globe front sight, although I just turned 51 my vision still hovers around 20/15 & 20/20 so I regularly use the thing and get nice groups. If you reload, IMR 4064 and IMR 4895 are pretty sure winners.
Just to clear up what I think is a miscommunication, the "spacer" that on occasion was supposed to have worked loose was a chamber insert, not the spacer found in the mag well. I suppose the spacer in the mag well can work loose, not heard of it happening though.0 -
lkn4adel, You need to lighten up a little. Nmyers is one of the most expert and helpful of those who post on this forum. Like me, he is sometimes irritated by the serial number x'ers who have swallowed the myth about some crook obtaining a serial number and reporting the gun stolen. I have tried several times to get someone to give me a factual example of that happening and none have provided a case where that has happened. I have learned a lot from this forum and believe you will also if you stick around. One thing I have learned is that everyone who posts on this forum is not an expert. Some even waste one of the ten replies by suggesting only that someone will come along to answer your question. 0 -
This rifle was listed on GunAmerica and there is a not that the seller has only sold three items and other problems.
I found this info maybe this will be helpful.
http://yarchive.net/gun/rifle/garand_308.html#update_2
Emmett0 -
If you are planning to shoot this one, please DO bear in mind the 7.62mm NATO is NOT .308 Winchester. There were reports of some Navy conversions that used a chamber insert- and in some cases, the chamber insert would eject with a fired case- and if a round loaded and fired, did a heck of a job fire forming that 7.62 case. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by 11b6r
If you are planning to shoot this one, please DO bear in mind the 7.62mm NATO is NOT .308 Winchester. There were reports of some Navy conversions that used a chamber insert- and in some cases, the chamber insert would eject with a fired case- and if a round loaded and fired, did a heck of a job fire forming that 7.62 case.
Nah. No insert. 7.62 NATO chamber. (Photos of barrel have been added). Also, to the poster of the M1, you have a very rare operating rod. If you want to bother making extra money, sell it here on Gunbroker. (After you acquire a good late issue OP-rod to replace it). It will allow you beaucoup money for bullets. Just a thought. Best, Joe0 -
Thanks for all of the help. I really appreciate it.
quote:Originally posted by givette
quote:Originally posted by 11b6r
If you are planning to shoot this one, please DO bear in mind the 7.62mm NATO is NOT .308 Winchester. There were reports of some Navy conversions that used a chamber insert- and in some cases, the chamber insert would eject with a fired case- and if a round loaded and fired, did a heck of a job fire forming that 7.62 case.
Nah. No insert. 7.62 NATO chamber. (Photos of barrel have been added). Also, to the poster of the M1, you have a very rare operating rod. If you want to bother making extra money, sell it here on Gunbroker. (After you acquire a good late issue OP-rod to replace it). It will allow you beaucoup money for bullets. Just a thought. Best, Joe0
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