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Need Help Identifying Weird German Rifle?! Shotgun

phikapone
Hey all,

I need some help determining what this is:

It has the following features:

No forend;

Break-action single-shot;

Hammer-activated firing pin;

i/4 octagonal 3/4 round barrell;

sling hole on belly of barrel;

markings on receiver--U and G under crown;

Markings on underside of barrel--B, U, and G under crown and 129, 43;

Markings on side of barrel--hard to read, maybe 4 gr b1;

It is about 46" long, 32" is barrel length;

If someone can tell me how to put pictures in a forum post I have pictures to upload, otherwise anyone who thinks they might know what it is can give me their email and I can email them.

I have been told it was a belgian garden gun, but that doesn't seem to eb the case, especially since the markings are German.

Thanks for your help!
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Comments

9 comments

Date Votes
  • jonk
    There is a sticky on the main Ask the Experts page on how to upload pics.
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  • phikapone
    Here are the pictures:

    sideofbarrel4grothermar.jpg
    Side of the Barrel

    sideclosed.jpg
    Closed break action

    receiverbanduundercrown.jpg
    Receiver marks, B and U under crown

    noforend.jpg
    See, the rifle has no foregrip, doens't look like it was designed to even have one

    fulllonggun.jpg
    The gun is close to 46" long!

    breakactionside.jpg
    Break action single shot

    breakaction.jpg
    Extractor
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  • Hawk Carse
    I cannot tell the make and model (If you were making a high quality product, wouldn't you put your name or trademark on it?) but it is German, not Belgian. The (Crown) B, U, and G marks are the old Imperial German proof marks, established in 1891 and used until the Nazi government changed the system in 1939. Collectors routinely refer to "BUG proofs" to describe guns from that period.

    The 129,43 is the gauge equivalent of an 8.43mm bore diameter. Which does not tell me what actual caliber and cartridge it takes.
    The faint marks in the top picture which I can read only "4 gr" are load data for a caliber not listed in the official proof charts.
    Is it smoothbore or rifled? Does it have rifle sights or just a shotgun bead?

    The action operates like a Stevens Tip-Up but is not an exact copy.

    I figure it goes back to the late 19th or early 20th century.
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  • BigLoop22
    quote:Originally posted by phikapone

    breakaction.jpg
    Extractor




    phikapone,

    The "Extractor" picture sure makes the hammer look like a "cockeyed hammer". Is it a photographic distortion, or is the hammer really bent to the right?
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  • phikapone
    The barrel has rear and front sights, you can see the rear sights on the "extractor" picture.

    It is half-rifled, I know that sounds odd, but that's just what it is, the rifling stops about halfway down the barrel.

    And yes, the hammer really is bent to the right.

    Does any of this info help?
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  • rufe-snow
    Without a chamber cast, no telling what metric cartridge it would be chambered for? Back in the late 19th Century their were some sporting guns made with partially rifled barrels, but the rifling was in the front portion of the barrel, rather then the rear portion. Supposedly this enabled the firearm to be used either for cartridges loaded with shot or solid slugs for short range hunting.

    Given the amount of pitting on the firearm in the photos, don't believe either the manufacturer or cartridge it's chambered for is relevant. At best it would be a wall hanger/decorator/conversation piece with little monetary value.
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  • phikapone
    How can you tell if it is pitted? There are no shots showing the inside of the barrel.
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  • phikapone
    Also, according to some research the marking on the underside of the barrel 129,43 means that it is able to accommodate a .330 size bullet.
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  • rufe-snow
    quote:Originally posted by phikapone
    How can you tell if it is pitted? There are no shots showing the inside of the barrel.




    The 1st, 3rd & 7th photos show extensive external pitting on the rifle?
    This type and extent of pitting has a very negative effect on the value of a firearm.
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