Double Date Lugers
I have two Double Dated Artillery lugers, 1916/1920 and 1918/1920. I have found information on the standard 4" barrel lugers, being reworked after WWI, to be issued to police and military units. Then being stamped with the 1920 over the earlier manufacture date, but can find no reference to the Artillery models, with the 8" barrels being reworked.
Also one of them has the "Red 9" on the grip, like that issued on the broomhandled mausers.
What I am looking for is a value, they both have all matching numbers, except for magazines, and have about 90% blueing and straw colors. I would appreciate any info.
Also one of them has the "Red 9" on the grip, like that issued on the broomhandled mausers.
What I am looking for is a value, they both have all matching numbers, except for magazines, and have about 90% blueing and straw colors. I would appreciate any info.
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To the best of my recollection, the "1920" marking is almost a date. It signifies that the gun was in compliance with the 1920 accords that allowed Germany to keep reduced weaponry. It is stamped on the C-96's (or anything the German gov't was allowed to retain in postwar years).
Red '9'? perhaps an early Luger design that started out with an illegal length barrel, in this case it was in .30 Luger, and had a barrel change to 9mm when the barrel was swapped out to be in compliance with the 1920 rule. Barrels had to be 100mm or less, or the guns had to be destroyed, or released to civilian sales/export. Best, Joe
EDIT-Info Added
Sorry. Back to your question: if you can post pictures that are sharp enough to enable a collector of that type of firearm to be convinced that it is as you say (the old "buy the gun, not the story" rule applies here) then sell at auction starting at $1000/no reserve. That will guarantee two things: that you will get a sale, and the firearm will be sold at a fair market rate at the time of sale. Best again, Joe
EDIT 2:
After further thought, the '1920' date addition/overstamp may have been for a standard 4in barrel. The firearms may have been re-barreled to return them to Artillery length firearm, or were re-barreled standard P-08's. If you decide to list on Gunbroker, take some good, sharp photos of the underside of the barrel to show the indexing to the frame, and the SerNo stamped onto the underdide of the barrel just ahead of the caliber marking. My read on all this: Without contrary (by SerNo) documentation indicating Artillery's, my gut tells me they are "doctored up" standard P-08's. Joe0 -
Hello I agree with givette . However if these are truly original . They would be quite a find. You state they are ALL MATCHING I would love to see detail of the rear part of the toggle serial #stamp compared with stamp on other parts as the 4 inch model has rear sight on toggle but artillery models the rear sight is on the barrel.Is the serial number of the frame on the side of front receiver ring or bottom so a picture of barrel serial # and frame serial # is also in order. I have one artillery with large BLACK 9 embossed in each grip sort of like a branding IRON . I see CHARLES KENYON does state there were a FEW in my books however I have never seen a double date Artillery.we also need close up in focus pictures of ALL proof marks. to see if we can tell if original or parts gun also pictures of the top of frame with barrel and toggle removed . 0 -
I have taken the photo's requested, but would rather e-mail them to you both, as I don,t have the time to work out on how to send them through directly to the forum. If you would provide your e-mails to me, at mrp4@hughes.net, I would be glad to send them, and wait for your reply via e-mail or the forum. I have also taken an additional photo of the front sight of 8313, it's different from others I have seen. 0
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