Bearcat conversion question
Someone offered me a cheap project grade Ruger Bearcat the other day and I wondered if a 18 inch barrel with a old style detachable stock would be a legal conversion? if not what about a fixed stock?
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As long as the overall length is at least 26 inches with the 18" barrel your OK. With that long a barrel it makes a very cumbersome handgun though. The fixed stock would be the way to go. That way the barrel would only have to be 16" long. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by rufe-snow
As long as the overall length is at least 26 inches with the 18" barrel your OK. With that long a barrel it makes a very cumbersome handgun though. The fixed stock would be the way to go. That way the barrel would only have to be 16" long.
Because with a greater than OAL of 26" the firearm without the shoulder stock attached is considered an AOW as opposed to being reconfigured from a rifle back to a handgun, correct?
Just a guess, but I think the frame of the Bearcat is less than 8" long - probably close to 20" bbl needed. But just a guess.0 -
quote:Originally posted by dfletcher
Because with a greater than OAL of 26" the firearm without the shoulder stock attached is considered an AOW as opposed to being reconfigured from a rifle back to a handgun, correct?
Just a guess, but I think the frame of the Bearcat is less than 8" long - probably close to 20" bbl needed. But just a guess.
I don't honestly know? I was under the impression as long as the barrel was over 16" long and the overall length over 26", it was legal with a removable shoulder stock. The feds don't seem to get particularly excited about people converting handguns into rifles, as much as they do rifles into handguns.0 -
If it isn't a Super Bearcat, it has an alloy grip frame that may not hold up to any kind of attachment.
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There was recently a thread on doing something like this to an Uberti buntline:
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=388831
If you look at existing semiautomatic pistol-to-carbine conversions, they pretty much all involve a fixed unit that incorporates both a stock and the barrel. That way the one unit satisfies both overall length and barrel length requirements, and the gun CANNOT be configured into an illegal configuration and still function.
The BATFE takes a dim view of guns that CAN be assembled into illegal configurations, even if they aren't actually assembled that way.
In this case, agreeing with what's already been written, I think your dimensions are such that a detachable (or folding) stock would be a "no-no" unless you went through the Federal paperwork process or used a barrel far longer than 18".
But I think a fixed stock and a long barrel together would probably be OK, so long as you met the minimum barrel and overall length requirements.
Whether or not it would actually be worth the effort is another issue.0 -
I think Rufe hit the nail on the head. If you go over 16" you now have a SBR, short barrelled rifle. Which needs a stamp. But, if you configure it to over 26" OAL, you now have an AOW, Any Other Weapon (which requires no stamp). You can build this thing with either a fixed or detachable stock. As long as the stock has a positive means of attaching itself to the firearm. Where you could get into trouble is if you had a detachable stock but didn't set the firearm up so that the barrel was just as detachable. Say for instance if you wanted to put it in a case to travel with it or conserve room in your safe. With the long barrel and under 26" OAL you would have a SBR. Even if it's locked in a case or safe. That's where your no-no comes in.
As far as the BATF is concerned, you can have a breakdown rifle that you can switch barrels on. With handguns you can put a 'longer than 16" barrel' on as long as you change the buttstock to conform with the 26" OAL. You can change that back if you like, to a handgun. Thompson Center's entire premise is set up that way. Buy a Contender or Encore as a pistol, then configure it to rifle. Then with barrel and stock accessories, configure it back to pistol. It's legal to do that. Some individuals have a heartache with that, though. As long as the firearm was purchased as a pistol you can re-configure it to pistol. It's no different than if you bought a pistol or rifle and had the caliber changed. Just don't ever leave it in the wrong configuration.0 -
The problem is, that when it left the factory it left registered as an assembled handgun, so it can never be registered as a rifle...just like the Thompson Center Contenders and Encores, that leave the factory as a handgun. In doing so, in order for it to meet rifle configuration it will have to have a permanently modified grip frame(one that can not be easily changed back), that makes the over all length 26 inches without the stock, including at least a 16 inch barrel. I know that does not seem right as a Ruger 10-22 with a 16 inch barrel does not measure up to that magic 26 inches out of the stock...but it was manufactured as a rifle to start with.
There were numerous threads on this specific topic of converting the Encores and Contenders back and forth from pistol to rifle, and back again, if you were to do a search.
At any rate, I would ask the BATFE local rep for their interpretation, and if they say its OK, get it in writing. It will save a lot of time wondering, and butt ache.
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Thanks for everyone's reply. Well I guess factory configuration is the rule.Maybe I will check with the ATF but I can guess what their answer will be. As to if it would be worth it,well I think the detachable stock version would be a fine design along the lines of Stevens or Wesson pocket rifles all fitted out in a case with a few accessories and maybe a custom holster/rig. so the only question remains...How do I get Ruger to make one [}:)] 0 -
quote:Originally posted by sandwarrior
As far as the BATF is concerned, you can have a breakdown rifle that you can switch barrels on. With handguns you can put a 'longer than 16" barrel' on as long as you change the buttstock to conform with the 26" OAL. You can change that back if you like, to a handgun. Thompson Center's entire premise is set up that way. Buy a Contender or Encore as a pistol, then configure it to rifle. Then with barrel and stock accessories, configure it back to pistol. It's legal to do that. Some individuals have a heartache with that, though. As long as the firearm was purchased as a pistol you can re-configure it to pistol. It's no different than if you bought a pistol or rifle and had the caliber changed. Just don't ever leave it in the wrong configuration.
Actually, the T/C 1992 court case has the ATF being a bit difficult. The T/C product involved was a kit containing a frame, rifle stock, handgun stock and a less than 16" barrel. SCOTUS ruled in favor of T/C in what was essentially a manufacturing case. ATF takes the very narrow position that the only T/C products granted legal "handgun to rifle to handgun" reconfiguration are those particular T/C kits sold in 1992. Other T/C products (Contender and Encore) although functionally identical, are not afforded the same status.
The ATF letter is floating around somewhere - I might have posted it here and will see if I can find and attach.
The handgun to rifle and back configuration is an interesting matter as it demonstrates just how far gun technology has outpaced law. You can do essentially the same thing with an AR handgun receiver and a Ruger Charger nearly as easily. There are probably thousands of Encores out there that started life as a rifle and have 15" bbls and handgun stocks on them, alot of them even 4473'd as handguns.0
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