c & r eligibility
how do i know if an item is c & r eligible and does ship to c & r's in cal. still have to be sent by an ffl?
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If it is a C & R eligible handgun it must be sent to a Type 01 FFL dealer. If it is a C & R eligible long gun it can be sent directly to a CA Type 03 (C & R) FFL holder. However, in addition to being a C & R per federal standards, in CA it must in addition be greater than 50 years old.
For example, an SMLE No1 MkIII rifle is federally a C & R AND greater than 50 years old - it can be mailed directly to a C & R FFL in CA.
An Ishapore L2 SMLE rifle is federally a C &R but is not greater than 50 years old (made in the 60s) and therefore must go through a Type 01 FFL dealer.
I'd be a bit surprised if folks outside CA (inside CA too, actually) are aware of or pay much attention to the "must also be over 50 years old" with respect to C & R long guns.
Here's a copy of the federal C & R listing:
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios/index.htm0 -
dfletch, don't really understand what u r trying to say. I always thought the main criteria for c&r was it had to be over 50 years old. I don't think that many qualify under the curio portion. I would also think that most curios would be over 50. Cheers, Tom
PS. I have had MANY handguns sent directly to me in MS and plan on getting a few more. T
PPS, It is truely a shame that CA is so messed up.T0 -
quote:Originally posted by tccox
dfletch, don't really understand what u r trying to say. I always thought the main criteria for c&r was it had to be over 50 years old. I don't think that many qualify under the curio portion. I would also think that most curios would be over 50. Cheers, Tom
PS. I have had MANY handguns sent directly to me in MS and plan on getting a few more. T
PPS, It is truely a shame that CA is so messed up.T
I think he's saying that there are exceptions to the "50 year rule". For example, all pre-1964 Winchester Model 94's are C&R eligible and can be shipped directly to C&R holders in most states but it must be more than 50 years old to be shipped to California. All pre-1976 Colt SAA's are also C&R eligible by ATF but must be shipped to a Type 01 in California regardless of age (unless an antique). In other words, get out of California!0 -
All Winchester 88's, ALL Colt Woodsman pistols, etc- without regard to age. Yes, age 50+ is a common criteria for C&R status, but BATFE has determined that the collector value is such that they added them to the list. 0 -
Derek's original question wasn't clear; does he mean "What is a C&R under federal law?", AND/OR does he mean "What is California's interpretation of the federal C&R law?"
UNDER FEDERAL LAW, a C&R is any complete firearm in it's original configuration that is > 50 years old, whether or not it is on the ATF C&R list. A C&R is also any firearm that, because of its historic interest, ATF has seen fit to put on its C&R list, regardless of its age. (Tom, there is no "curio" portion of the list; a specific firearm is either a C&R, or it isn't.)
As dfletcher explained, California has decided to exclude handguns from the C&R category. (Federal law permits states to enact more restrictive firearms laws.)
How do you KNOW whether or not a specific firearm is > 50 years old? If you can look it up in S. Fjestad's Blue Book of Gun Values, great; otherwise, it may be found in some other book or catalog. But, it is the responsibility of the shipper to be able to prove that it IS a C&R; the default is that it must go to an FFL.
Neal
EDIT: Technically, you guys are correct; but, it's a distinction without a difference.0 -
C&R handgun must be shipped to a Type 01 firearms dealer in CA for transfer. A C&R FFL does not allow you to have C&R classified handguns shipped directly to you if you live in CA. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by nmyers
Derek's original question wasn't clear; does he mean "What is a C&R under federal law?", AND/OR does he mean "What is California's interpretation of the federal C&R law?"
UNDER FEDERAL LAW, a C&R is any complete firearm in it's original configuration that is > 50 years old, whether or not it is on the ATF C&R list. A C&R is also any firearm that, because of its historic interest, ATF has seen fit to put on its C&R list, regardless of its age. (Tom, there is no "curio" portion of the list; a specific firearm is either a C&R, or it isn't.)
As dfletcher explained, California has decided to exclude handguns from the C&R category. (Federal law permits states to enact more restrictive firearms laws.)
How do you KNOW whether or not a specific firearm is > 50 years old? If you can look it up in S. Fjestad's Blue Book of Gun Values, great; otherwise, it may be found in some other book or catalog. But, it is the responsibility of the shipper to be able to prove that it IS a C&R; the default is that it must go to an FFL.
Neal
The California laws for determining C&R status are exactly the same as the Federal laws. California references the Federal regulation for the C&R definition. If a firearm is a C&R under Federal law then it is also C&R under California law.
The 50 year California rule for C&R rifles and shotguns is an exception to the dealer transfer requirement in California law. It has nothing to do with determining the C&R status of the firearm.0 -
quote:Originally posted by EOD Guy
quote:Originally posted by nmyers
Derek's original question wasn't clear; does he mean "What is a C&R under federal law?", AND/OR does he mean "What is California's interpretation of the federal C&R law?"
UNDER FEDERAL LAW, a C&R is any complete firearm in it's original configuration that is > 50 years old, whether or not it is on the ATF C&R list. A C&R is also any firearm that, because of its historic interest, ATF has seen fit to put on its C&R list, regardless of its age. (Tom, there is no "curio" portion of the list; a specific firearm is either a C&R, or it isn't.)
As dfletcher explained, California has decided to exclude handguns from the C&R category. (Federal law permits states to enact more restrictive firearms laws.)
How do you KNOW whether or not a specific firearm is > 50 years old? If you can look it up in S. Fjestad's Blue Book of Gun Values, great; otherwise, it may be found in some other book or catalog. But, it is the responsibility of the shipper to be able to prove that it IS a C&R; the default is that it must go to an FFL.
Neal
The California laws for determining C&R status are exactly the same as the Federal laws. California references the Federal regulation for the C&R definition. If a firearm is a C&R under Federal law then it is also C&R under California law.
The 50 year California rule for C&R rifles and shotguns is an exception to the dealer transfer requirement in California law. It has nothing to do with determining the C&R status of the firearm.
Agreed - I suppose the point (to the OP) we're collectively making is that although California uses the same criteria as the federal government classifying a firearm as C & R eligible, California does not apply the same relaxed restrictions with respect to their sale.0 -
quote:Originally posted by dfletcher
Agreed - I suppose the point (to the OP) we're collectively making is that although California uses the same criteria as the federal government classifying a firearm as C & R eligible, California does not apply the same relaxed restrictions with respect to their sale.
You're right, but there is some, but not much, relief from California law for C&R FFL holders in California. For instance, a C&R FFL holder with a Certificate of Eligibility from Cal DOJ is exempt from the 10 day waiting period when purchasing any C&R firearm from a California dealer, not just 50 year old long guns. They are also exempted from the 1 handgun per 30 day law for all handguns.0 -
quote:Originally posted by EOD Guy
quote:Originally posted by dfletcher
Agreed - I suppose the point (to the OP) we're collectively making is that although California uses the same criteria as the federal government classifying a firearm as C & R eligible, California does not apply the same relaxed restrictions with respect to their sale.
You're right, but there is some, but not much, relief from California law for C&R FFL holders in California. For instance, a C&R FFL holder with a Certificate of Eligibility from Cal DOJ is exempt from the 10 day waiting period when purchasing any C&R firearm from a California dealer, not just 50 year old long guns. They are also exempted from the 1 handgun per 30 day law for all handguns.
I have the COE. In addition to the above I've found that we don't need the HSC card when buying a handgun - did a few deals where the gun store used the COE and didn't bother with the HSC, put me down as exempt so I suppose (hope?) they're right. I keep the HSC with me anyway.
Getting the COE was pretty easy, cost about $90.00 the 1st year $22.00 per year to renew. CA DOJ handled it in about 2 weeks. Of course being able to skip the 1 per 30 and cash & carry the C & R stuff gets expensive - I think I'd go broke in a "normal" state.0
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