Steel shot in M12
To Makindu and others interested: Bore of my 16 ga M12 measured about 0.655" using a standard vernier caliper. Visual inspection with a strong light indicated there is some taper to the "choke area" of the muzzle. I don't have a choke caliper so can't speak beyond that. When I bought the gun it was in tough shape. I'm guessing it was in a fire of some sort from the brown crud (plastic residue?) it was coated in. But, the wood was sound and the springs were still spring-y and the price was right. I have no idea what the choke measured before I started using the steel shot. It gets a new firing pin every once in a while but beyond that continues to run with the best of them. As model 12's usually do.
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Riley, when I first saw your post, and saw the .655" measurement, I thought to myself 'that barrel sure should have burst!'. Why. Because I was thinking in terms of 12ga barrels, and that constriction seemed way too tight, ESPECIALLY FOR STEEL! Then I realized yours is a 16ga barrel. I'm not an early Winchester shotgun expert, so I just did my research online (see chart below). Also, I went back and reread your earier post, whereby you had shot 1000 rounds of #2 steel shot through this 1930's Winchester Model 12 and that it was marked 'modified' on the barrel. Based on the chart below, your current gun barrel muzzle constriction would fall between Modified and Improved Cylinder. I guess whether all those steel rounds opened the muzzle up a tad more will never be known for sure. ATTN: BERT H. - Do you know how tight of a tolerance Winchester would have held on their 'modified' muzzle diameters on Model 12's back in the 1930's... like plus or minus how many thousands of an inch? And thanks to Riley for taking the measurement.
Some typical choke diameters:
Bore Full Mod IC Cylinder
10 Gauge (.775) .740 .758 .768 .775
12 Gauge (.725) .695 .710 .719 .725
16 Gauge (.662) .638 .650 .657 .662
20 Gauge (.615) .594 .605 .611 .615
28 Gauge (.550) .533 .542 .547 .550
.410 (.410) .396 .405 .408 .410
My source for the above was this webpage:
http://www.notpurfect.com/main/scatter.html0 -
Back when that gun was made, Winchester offered just two choke constrictions... FULL and MOD, with the other option being CYL. Based on the measurment given by riley, it appears that the choke has been opened up a bit. Typical tolerances were +/- .001 0 -
Hello All,
I guess I started this a couple of days ago with what I thought was a fairly simple post.
I live about 15 miles away from the Winchester ammo mfg. Plant in East Alton Illinois. For several years, I shot skeet and trap at their factory facility. I got to know several knowledgeable people over there.
I will be out of town for a few days, but when I get back, I will try to contact some folks that may be able to give some definitive information on this topic.
NOTE: They still have Model 12's at the range that they will loan to you to shot if you don't have a gun with you or would just like to try one out.0 -
Makindu, Bert, others interested. I'm pleased to contribute when I can. I GREATLY value the info provided on this form and the FACTUAL, ACCURATE guidance provided by folks like Bert, Mike W. and others. I usually start my day by going straight to this form to see if there's anything of interest. The "can't shoot steel in older guns" story has been one of those stories going around for as long as steel has been out. It's great to get expert opinions from those whose opinions I value. Especially when they agree with my own. My M12 "duck shooter" was bought cheap, used hard and I figured if I wrecked the choke or split the muzzle so-what; Poly Choke gets some more of my business. (A great invention) The fact that, that gun is still going strong speaks to the quality of the product and the folks that made it. 0
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