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Model 1912 16ga 2 9/16" ?

saserby
Guys,
I have a Model 12 with serial number 89450. It's 16ga, nickel steel. It's a shooter, but wont eject 2 3/4" shells. I took it to my local expert and he says it is a very early gun, and that it takes 2 9/16" shells. Can anyone confirm this? Anyone know a source for these shells?
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Comments

9 comments

Date Votes
  • Garth
    welcome to the forums. i too have an old 16 gauge A-5 clone manufactured by savage. fortunately mine was designed for the 2 3/4 shells. a lot of the older A-5's or its clones (especially military models) were chambered in 2 9/16. the forcing cone can be relieved to 2 3/4 but it will never be able to fire any substantial load because of the old fatigued metal and the fact that the metal of the shotgun was manufactured to fire black powder loads. if you chosse to hire a professional gunsmith to relieve the forcing cone, due to safety precautions, you should only fire modern birdshot because of its low load and the differences in the pressures of the old black powder versus modern smokeless powder. if it were mine, i would at least take it to a gunsmith to gauge the inside diameter of the chamber to find out which caliber it is. best
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  • saserby
    Thanks Garth. My local gunsmith can rebore the barrel to lengthen the forcing cone, but the bigger problem is relieving the ejection port. Still, he can do it, but I would rather not cut the gun if possible. He said he used to be able to buy 2 9/16" shells, but ran out. He's looking for some, and so am I.
    Next question: Should I just use 2 1/2" instead?
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  • Garth
    well, its my guess that that you could use 2 1/2 but it might not cycle the shotgun. in other words not enough powder charge. you could try it and see what happens so long as its black powder shells. im unaware of anyone manufacturing 2 9/16 or 2 1/2 shells to date. if 2 1/2 doesnt cycle your shotgun then your left with a choice of either hanging it on a wall or opening up the ejection port. if you choose the latter, just remember to never fire anything more than bird shot through it. i have seen pics and heard stories of how uneducated a person was regarding their firearm, used the wrong ammo, then disaster struck. dont let this happen to you, friend. good luck on your search for the proper ammo. Garth
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  • GuvamintCheese
    quote:Originally posted by Garth
    welcome to the forums. i too have an old 16 gauge A-5 clone manufactured by savage. fortunately mine was designed for the 2 3/4 shells. a lot of the older A-5's or its clones (especially military models) were chambered in 2 9/16. the forcing cone can be relieved to 2 3/4 but it will never be able to fire any substantial load because of the old fatigued metal and the fact that the metal of the shotgun was manufactured to fire black powder loads. if you chosse to hire a professional gunsmith to relieve the forcing cone, due to safety precautions, you should only fire modern birdshot because of its low load and the differences in the pressures of the old black powder versus modern smokeless powder. if it were mine, i would at least take it to a gunsmith to gauge the inside diameter of the chamber to find out which caliber it is. best
    This is a Winchester model 12. It was never built for black powder. A model 12 is proof tested with violent loads of smokeless powder (hence the VP stamping) that will never be fired by your average hunter. There has been over a million shells fired out of the same gun with no metal fatigue. He could safely open that gun to shoot 2 3/4 loads, and this is done all of the time. You need to read up a little on the old model 12...[;)]

    http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=390473
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  • saserby
    Cartod +1

    Garth,
    Gun is a pump, so cycling is a non-issue also.
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  • Garth
    i stand corrected. thanks for your input. i suppose that i might have been thinking about a different firearm in my minds eye. best.
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  • Bert H.
    It is not as simple as just opening up the chamber/forcing cone... the ejection port must also be opened up. The Model 1912/12 16 gauge guns were factory chambered for 2-9/16" shells up to the year 1927. Your gun (serial number 89450) was manufactured circa 1914/15.

    Fiocchi makes the shorter shells you that you need.
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  • saserby
    Thanks Bert. Yep, I agree with all you said. That's why I'm looking for the short shells.

    I'm still having trouble finding a place to actually buy the shells. Any sources? I know about RST. Any others?
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  • Winchester 1912
    [/quote]This is a Winchester model 12. It was never built for black powder. A model 12 is proof tested with violent loads of smokeless powder (hence the VP stamping) that will never be fired by your average hunter. There has been over a million shells fired out of the same gun with no metal fatigue. He could safely open that gun to shoot 2 3/4 loads, and this is done all of the time. You need to read up a little on the old model 12...[;)]

    http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=390473
    [/quote]
    Thanks Todd, you saved me from typing a mouthful.
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