S&W J&K Safety?
Howdy!
I'm looking for a CC 357 Mag, and had my mind made up I wanted a Ruger, but last night at church I told a guy that my Glock 19 was for sale to buy a revolver, and he pulled out his little S&W 60 . . .
My question is when or on what models have a firing pin / hammer safety like the Ruger's have that falling block that if the trigger is not pulled the hammer can't touch the firing pin?
I see no point in buying a 6 shot, but can only safely carry 5 rounds . . . or 5 shot, and carry 4 rounds . . .
I like my Ruger . . .but don't want to limit my search . . .
I'm looking for a CC 357 Mag, and had my mind made up I wanted a Ruger, but last night at church I told a guy that my Glock 19 was for sale to buy a revolver, and he pulled out his little S&W 60 . . .
My question is when or on what models have a firing pin / hammer safety like the Ruger's have that falling block that if the trigger is not pulled the hammer can't touch the firing pin?
I see no point in buying a 6 shot, but can only safely carry 5 rounds . . . or 5 shot, and carry 4 rounds . . .
I like my Ruger . . .but don't want to limit my search . . .
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You really only need to worry about the "primer under the hammer" issue with the single action army style revolvers. With those, if dropped, the firing pin could hit the primer and fire the gun without the trigger being pulled. With S&W double actions like the Model 60 you mention, there's no risk of an unintended discharge. 0 -
S&Ws have an internal block. 0 -
2 other things to consider with the M60:
1) There is the .38 special model, & the .357 mag model on the "J Magnum" frame; sounds like you want the latter.
2) Newer models have the internal key lock (& floating firing pin mounted in the frame); these features may or may not be desirable to you.
Neal0 -
Not to get confused with a block safety, what you are referring to is the transfer bar safety. It is also incorrect to say that the only ones you need to worry about would be the "single action army style" revolvers. There are some SAA style revolvers such as the Ruger new models, and I do believe the Freedom arms Casull's, that have a transfer bar safety.
ON the S&W revolver's, there is a bar that sits between the hammer and the frame that will not let the hammer mounted firing pin strike the primer, or in some cases the hammer reach the frame mounted firing pin. When the trigger is pulled and held, this bar retracts so the hammer can fall to meet the frame. In the case of the Ruger single actions, the hammer sits on the frame out of reach of the frame mounted firing pin. The bar when the trigger is squeezed rises between the frame and hammer, and transfers the hammers blow to the firing pin, and to the primer.
Any S&W revolver made after 1910 should be adequate, but for consealed carry, look at the Model 60 Pro Series...it is a 3 inch barrel, adjustable sight, 5 shot with nice grips, and performance center touches.
My next choice would be a ruger GP100 or a S&W 66 with a 2 1/2 inch barrel and adjustable sights.0 -
Dear 123,
You can safely carry a fully loaded J frame S&W. I carry a model 36 (same as a model 60 except blue finish. The model 60 chambered for 357 magnum is NOT pleasant to shoot and IMHO unnecessary, especially if the S&W is a 2" barrel model. I think the 38 special cartridge is adequate for that kind of firearm although some folks may disagree. If you go with a S&W model 36 or 60, spend some time on getting a holster that works for you. They are a bit on the heavy side.0 -
The agency I worked for up until 1990 issued us Model 66 S & W revolvers with 2 1/2" barrels. They were VERY LOUD and had a tremendous muzzle flash when fired in the dark. As I see it, the main advantage of having a short barreled .357 is that the intended target will probably be scared more if the shot is louder and you happen to miss on the first shot. 0 -
My current Ruger is a New Model Blackhawk SS w/6.5" bbl I actually do manage to conceal it under a suit jacket at church sometimes . . .shoulder holster . . .
Yes my concern is if dropped, that the hammer could jam the firing pin up into the primer . . .causing a unintending discharge . . .
I do want a 357 mag, I can shoot the 38's If I want, but IMHO a 38 is just a slower firing 9mm . . .with less capacity . . .
I'm gonna try out my friends 2.5" S&W60, and another friend has a Ruger Security Six w/4"bbl (although I do not really want more than a 3"bbl) it is something to shoot . . .
I saw a S&W 60 here on auction that appeared to have the firing pin on the end of the hammer . . . that it would be resting over the primer . . .(I can't find it right now . . .)0 -
All of the Smith models 60 since their inception have a hammer-block or other similar internal safety making them "drop proof" and safe to carry with all five cylinders loaded.
The guns simply can't go off unless the trigger is pulled back, so don't worry about it. . .that's not an issue.
Personally, I have no problem firing full 158 grain .357 magnum rounds from an all steel 2-1/8 barrelled Smith 60. Using full three finger grips helps tremendously (eg as opposed to two finger boot grips). Yeah, recoil is "stout". But I'd say really not any worse the the recoil of a .38+P from one of the "airweight" .38s with the boot grips.
Don't forget that even though the model number is the same, the recent vintage Smith 60s in .357 are actually built on a tougher and physically heavier frame then the older .38 special model 60s. The difference is noticeable if you compare one against the other.
I'd say in general that *ALL* .357 revolvers produce a tremendous amount of muzzle flash. The problem is inherent to the cartridge, which is notoriously inefficient, burning a lot of the powder outside the barrel. Of course, the shorter the barrel (eg a 2" snub), the worse the problem.
If you are worried about muzzle flash either pick a service round using a flash-suppressed powder (these do exist) or pick a different cartridge.
In terms of ballistics, actually modern 9mms are more powerful than many people think, being right in between .38s and .357s. People who claim 9mms are similar to .38s simply don't know what they are talking about.
The precise velocities will vary depending on the exact load and barrel length used, but using standard pistols and ammo, you might expect around the following muzzle velocities:
125 grain .38 special: 900 fps
125 grain .38 +P special: 950 fps.
124 grain 9mm: 1100 fps
124 grain 9mm+P: 1250 fps.
124 grain 357 SIG: 1350 fps
125 grain .357 magnum: 1450 fps
As you can see, the "serious" 9mms (eg 9mm+P) are far more powerful than any .38 specials, and actually get you about 75% of the way there to .357 magnum ballistics.
There is a reason why 95% of the police and military units on the planet use 9mm luger as standard issue, and its not because 9mm rounds "suck".0 -
Thanks Beantown!
I was going from my foggy memory from the reloading manuals . . .
I don't much care about the "flash" . . . if the bullet dosen't kill them, maybe the powder burn will![:D]
I will want a full grip. I have "Extra Large Hands" and I need to hold the whole grip!0 -
This is the gun I was thinking of . . . http://v4.beta.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=135371320 a Model 65, not a 60 . . . my friend just happens to have a Mod 60, and I really would wnat something around the 3", could be a tad smaller/shorter . . .
Would a "K" frame be easily concealable . . .?
I'm sure it is smaller than my Blackhawk, but that really is a very large piece of iron to hide . . .0 -
Go with the model 60, and keep it loaded with +P .38 spl. The snubbies in .357 mag are unpleasant to shoot, to say the least! 0 -
quote:Originally posted by 123.DieselBenz
This is the gun I was thinking of . . . http://v4.beta.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=135371320 a Model 65, not a 60 . . . my friend just happens to have a Mod 60, and I really would wnat something around the 3", could be a tad smaller/shorter . . .
Would a "K" frame be easily concealable . . .?
I'm sure it is smaller than my Blackhawk, but that really is a very large piece of iron to hide . . .
Model 65 is a whole other thing.
For one thing the gun FRAME on a model 65 is the medium sized K-frame (not the small J-frame of the model 60) and much larger.
The K frame is large enough that you basically can't conceal it in a pocket or in an ankle holster like a smaller J frame.
If you intend to carry it on a belt holster (or a shoulder holster), that shouldn't matter.
Recoil on the bigger K frame is substantially less, plus capacity is the full 6 rounds.
But if concealability is important, you'd want the smaller J frame gun, which are basically THE standard in concealed carry revolvers.0 -
quote:Originally posted by beantownshootah
quote:Originally posted by 123.DieselBenz
This is the gun I was thinking of . . . http://v4.beta.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=135371320 a Model 65, not a 60 . . . my friend just happens to have a Mod 60, and I really would wnat something around the 3", could be a tad smaller/shorter . . .
Would a "K" frame be easily concealable . . .?
I'm sure it is smaller than my Blackhawk, but that really is a very large piece of iron to hide . . .
Model 65 is a whole other thing.
For one thing the gun FRAME on a model 65 is the medium sized K-frame (not the small J-frame of the model 60) and much larger.
The K frame is large enough that you basically can't conceal it in a pocket or in an ankle holster like a smaller J frame.
If you intend to carry it on a belt holster (or a shoulder holster), that shouldn't matter.
Recoil on the bigger K frame is substantially less, plus capacity is the full 6 rounds.
But if concealability is important, you'd want the smaller J frame gun, which are basically THE standard in concealed carry revolvers.
But does the 65 have the same internal type internal block / transfer bar as the 60?
I'll certainly try my friends 60 out, but I don't mind a heavier gun, as it reduces recoil, and a gun that is fun to shoot, gets shot a lot more . . .0
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