What is HARD BALL type ammunition?
I have a 25 caliber Raven Arms Automatic gun. The owners manual says it takes HARD BALL type ammunition...
I have some 25 caliber 117 grain hornady bullets... Will these bullets work correctly in my gun?
This is a very serious question and needs a serious answer, any assistance is greatly appreciated!
I have some 25 caliber 117 grain hornady bullets... Will these bullets work correctly in my gun?
This is a very serious question and needs a serious answer, any assistance is greatly appreciated!
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"Hard Ball" is another name for Full Metal Jacket bullets. The .25 automatic cartridge such as your Raven uses bullets normally weighing 50 grains. The 117 grain Hornadys are made for reloading rifle cartridges such as the 25-06 and the .257 Roberts. They are way to heavy and will not be reloadable or function in your Raven. 0 -
YOUR THE BEST!!! GOD BLESS YOU!!! That completely answers my question. Glad that someone has some knowledge! Have a Wonderful day! 0 -
Rufe Snow beat me to the punch [;)]"AGAIN" and is correct of course I might add the DCM/CMP/ That run matches for both pistol and rifle has a day set aside at Camp Perry where we shoot close to stock pistols and they used to issue ammo on the firing line so it was a very level playing field [^] We all shot 230 grain Ball ammo and the matches Presidents 100. National Individual Trophy National Team Trophy matches were shot it separated the men from the boys and was Hard to score good on Thus the term "PRAISE THE HARD-BALL GUN"[^][:p][:D] > the records of people who did well in these matches starting before 1900 earn a Distinguish Badge in the first 100 years less then 1000 pistol shooters earned this badge. I have not kept up with latest numbers since I stopped going to Perry in 2005 0 -
quote:Originally posted by HiddenValleyMoon
I have a 25 caliber Raven Arms Automatic gun. The owners manual says it takes HARD BALL type ammunition...
I have some 25 caliber 117 grain hornady bullets... Will these bullets work correctly in my gun?
This is a very serious question and needs a serious answer, any assistance is greatly appreciated!
"Hard ball" is just another way of saying standard full metal jacket (ie NOT hollowpoint) bullets.
Most (but not all) .25 ACP ammo is of this configuration. Most (but not all) semi-automatic handgun "practice" type ammo is also of this configuration.
Ordinary .25 ACP pistol bullets are short and weigh about 50 grains.
Your 117 grain bullets are designed for a rifle, and are both too long and too heavy to be loaded into .25 ACP cartridges safely.
So, no, you can't use those in your Raven pistol, or at least not in any way that is practical or safe.
By the way, you didn't ask, but Raven guns are widely considered to be "junk" guns. The frames are made of low-end zinc alloy, and the firing pins are prone to breakage.
The safety mechanisms are questionable, and the guns themselves may not be "drop" safe. That is NOT good. You do NOT want ANY gun that can go "bang" if you accidentally drop it.
Further, .25 ACP ammo is not only somewhat hard to find, its also relatively expensive, usually costing as much as say .38 special ammunition.
Worse, the ballistic performance of the .25 ACP round is absolutely terrible, and this should not be considered a reliable cartridge for self-defense. It just shoots a bullet that is too small and too slow to do a lot of damage.
So, I'd politely suggest that you might be better served getting rid of the Raven, or trading it for something a little more reliable and powerful.0 -
+1000x1000 on what beantownshootah said. sell it asap! save a lil money and buy a better gun. best 0 -
It might be a junky gun but I got one at a flea market for a whopping $30 used and a bit rusty. And any functioning gun for a bargain like that is worth having.
But to weigh in on the issue- if you can find cast lead bullets they should work too, if of proper diameter and weight (around 252 diameter, around 40-60 gr in weight)0 -
jonk hit on the issue I wanted to mention. There are rifle and pistol bullets for the .25. The 117's you mention have a diameter of .257. Pistol bullets for the .25 have diameters of .251(.252 cast).
The reason I mention this is there is (was?) such a thing as a 60 gr. bullet for both the .25 ACP and for rifles.0 -
quote:Originally posted by jonk
It might be a junky gun but I got one at a flea market for a whopping $30 used and a bit rusty. And any functioning gun for a bargain like that is worth having.
Worth it for you, perhaps, but not for me.
Personally, I'd rather spend that $30 on many other things, including a nice brick of .22LR ammo.
In fact, not only would I NOT spend $30 for a Raven pistol, I don't think I would spend even $1 for one. . .I know I would never shoot it and it would just sit rusting in the back of my safe.
I've already mentioned the biggest reason why, namely that the gun is prone to discharge when dropped. In my book, that makes the gun fundamentally unsafe, and not only do I not want to own or shoot one, I don't want to be around anyone else who has one either!
I would never carry this gun for defensive purposes or use it as a "house" gun. Its unsafe, prone to breakage, and the caliber is too weak. I'd never use it for hunting. . .same reasons. The guns aren't particularly comfortable to operate, and they are fundamentally inaccurate, making them a poor choice for target or recreational shooting.
Again, don't forget that if you want to shoot this thing (even once) you still need to buy a box of ammo. At $15-20 per box for .25 ACP ammo (which isn't all that common either) I'd rather be shooting 9mm luger or .38 special, particularly given a limited amount of range time available to me and dollars to spend.
Yes, I suppose you could reload the rounds fairly cheaply. . .but why bother? Now you're adding costs (for reloading dies and your time), but you're not going to be able to reload them as cheaply as factory .22LR rounds which are more or less ballistically equivalent.
In short, with other guns available, I just don't see any compelling reason to carry, load, or shoot this thing. So why own it?
I suppose there *might* be something to be said about having what amounts to a "disposable" gun, though it probably isn't anything good.0 -
quote:Originally posted by jonk
It might be a junky gun but I got one at a flea market for a whopping $30 used and a bit rusty. And any functioning gun for a bargain like that is worth having.
But to weigh in on the issue- if you can find cast lead bullets they should work too, if of proper diameter and weight (around 252 diameter, around 40-60 gr in weight)
25 raven is a sore subject with me.
IF a squirrel came up to me with a mini blindfold on, smoking a cigarette, waving a little white flag, and just stood there so I could put the ...(can't even call it a gun) the... 'item' to his head. I would be more worried about the damn thing just wounding the squirrel and subsequently being charged with animal cruelty by PETA, having squirrel lovers anonymous picket my house, and being laughed out of the woods by every animal of Gods creation.
That of course is assuming it even fired.
Now if you want a small caliber pocket pistol, it's hard to beat a .22 long rifle. Get a quality made pistol and you have something you can rely on.
"And any functioning gun for a bargain like that is worth having"
Your using the term "functioning gun" loosely there.
We will definitely disagree on the worth having part.
I've got boxes of cut up junkers I've tested over the years. If it was less than 200 bucks, it went under the macroscope and blade.
For that matter, I've got a bunch of the more expensive variety as well with the same treatment.
Some people just shake there head and ask me "why?".
Why is because I value the lives of my family, and myself as priceless. When the moment comes, I don't want one shred of doubt in my mind as to if my firearm is going to perform it's intended function.
Cheap is not always bad, expensive is not always good, and bullS*** is rampant. If it's in my possession as a firearm, it's because I've personally tested it to a degree 99 percent of the population wouldn't have even dreamed of. I take no gun rag on face value, nor the rumor mill, someones "opinion", or anything or anyone else.
That said, I wouldn't even use it as a boat anchor for fear it would break and set me adrift.
So how much is your life worth to you? 30 dollars?0 -
quote:Originally posted by cwi555
quote:Originally posted by jonk
It might be a junky gun but I got one at a flea market for a whopping $30 used and a bit rusty. And any functioning gun for a bargain like that is worth having.
But to weigh in on the issue- if you can find cast lead bullets they should work too, if of proper diameter and weight (around 252 diameter, around 40-60 gr in weight)
25 raven is a sore subject with me.
How sore? Did you have a mishap with one? Did you wound that squirrel you talk about? have you ever had a misfire with one? Or, a series of misfires?
I've got boxes of cut up junkers I've tested over the years. If it was less than 200 bucks, it went under the macroscope and blade.
For that matter, I've got a bunch of the more expensive variety as well with the same treatment.
Some people just shake there head and ask me "why?".
It's your money you do with it what you want. I've never trashed a gun. I'll sell it if I don't like it. I won't sell something that will hurt someone though.
Why is because I value the lives of my family, and myself as priceless. When the moment comes, I don't want one shred of doubt in my mind as to if my firearm is going to perform it's intended function.
"You may or may not agree, but a .25 will scare a way a criminal just as much as a .22 or a 9mm if it gets fired at him. No one wants to get hit in the first place or hit again in a rush to get the victim.
Cheap is not always bad, expensive is not always good, and bullS*** is rampant. If it's in my possession as a firearm, it's because I've personally tested it to a degree 99 percent of the population wouldn't have even dreamed of. I take no gun rag on face value, nor the rumor mill, someones "opinion", or anything or anyone else.
That said, I wouldn't even use it as a boat anchor for fear it would break and set me adrift.
So how much is your life worth to you? 30 dollars?
Just because you own it doesn't meant you have to carry it as a defensive weapon. I guarantee you if you never use it you will never know it's potential. If you smash it and trash it you take the chance with any gun they won't work.
As far as never taking anyones opinion, I think you do. You would never 'test' firearms as you say you do. You wouldn't read here or post here. Most people I know who don't like others opinions rarely share theirs with you. I've found that mostly they don't want you to know what they're thinking. I don't think what you do is bad. Instead, I think it's good. You've gone out experienced something and found a better way to do it. The function of the pistol, and it's drawbacks you know. WE (all of here on GB) value that. If it's a drawback then we'd sure like to know about.
Bottom line here is jonk is entitled to his opinion too. We may or may not agree on whether it's a good product. but listen to his opinion, counter if you feel it necessary. But bashing isn't exactly the way to be heard here. I hope you take that as some constructive direction as to how you may express your dealings with issues here.
-Best0 -
quote:Originally posted by sandwarrior
quote:Originally posted by cwi555
quote:Originally posted by jonk
It might be a junky gun but I got one at a flea market for a whopping $30 used and a bit rusty. And any functioning gun for a bargain like that is worth having.
But to weigh in on the issue- if you can find cast lead bullets they should work too, if of proper diameter and weight (around 252 diameter, around 40-60 gr in weight)
25 raven is a sore subject with me.
How sore? Did you have a mishap with one? Did you wound that squirrel you talk about? have you ever had a misfire with one? Or, a series of misfires?
I've got boxes of cut up junkers I've tested over the years. If it was less than 200 bucks, it went under the macroscope and blade.
For that matter, I've got a bunch of the more expensive variety as well with the same treatment.
Some people just shake there head and ask me "why?".
It's your money you do with it what you want. I've never trashed a gun. I'll sell it if I don't like it. I won't sell something that will hurt someone though.
Why is because I value the lives of my family, and myself as priceless. When the moment comes, I don't want one shred of doubt in my mind as to if my firearm is going to perform it's intended function.
"You may or may not agree, but a .25 will scare a way a criminal just as much as a .22 or a 9mm if it gets fired at him. No one wants to get hit in the first place or hit again in a rush to get the victim.
Cheap is not always bad, expensive is not always good, and bullS*** is rampant. If it's in my possession as a firearm, it's because I've personally tested it to a degree 99 percent of the population wouldn't have even dreamed of. I take no gun rag on face value, nor the rumor mill, someones "opinion", or anything or anyone else.
That said, I wouldn't even use it as a boat anchor for fear it would break and set me adrift.
So how much is your life worth to you? 30 dollars?
Just because you own it doesn't meant you have to carry it as a defensive weapon. I guarantee you if you never use it you will never know it's potential. If you smash it and trash it you take the chance with any gun they won't work.
As far as never taking anyones opinion, I think you do. You would never 'test' firearms as you say you do. You wouldn't read here or post here. Most people I know who don't like others opinions rarely share theirs with you. I've found that mostly they don't want you to know what they're thinking. I don't think what you do is bad. Instead, I think it's good. You've gone out experienced something and found a better way to do it. The function of the pistol, and it's drawbacks you know. WE (all of here on GB) value that. If it's a drawback then we'd sure like to know about.
Bottom line here is jonk is entitled to his opinion too. We may or may not agree on whether it's a good product. but listen to his opinion, counter if you feel it necessary. But bashing isn't exactly the way to be heard here. I hope you take that as some constructive direction as to how you may express your dealings with issues here.
-Best
It was not intended as bashing, it was intended to give fodder for thought. Everyone has their opinion, that is true. You've just expressed yours.
As for the squirrel, nope, never shot a squirrel with one.
As for this comment
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As far as never taking anyones opinion, I think you do. You would never 'test' firearms as you say you do."
Of course I read here, I read everything I can get my hands on as even a bias opinion has a root for that bias. I take no ones opinion as gospel, nor do I expect anyone to take mine as such.
What I try to do is pass along my findings. If someone else can disprove them, then that is a good thing. It means I had a break down somewhere in my methodology, which is something I definetly wish to address if one is ever noted or discovered by anyone.
Challenge is part of the scientific process. It is why every discovery is sumitted to various organizations for review by peers.
If your going to have a review of peers, you dont send a gun related review to the 4H club for review.
The history of firearms is so vast that no one person or even organization can possibly know it all.
I don't comment on many questions here as I simply have not had the money or time to directy address them.
Those I have directly addressed, I will comment on. This so happened to be one I have directly addressed. I picked up a box of 6 of them at a gun show years ago for 200 bucks. Fire tested them all with very poor results. Dimensional inspections which displayed a shocking lack of tolorance control, macrographs which showed poor heat treatment and metal forming practices. All in all, it was the worst I had seen.
By contrast, the best 25 auto was a recent one I've gotten into.
Berreta 21 bobcat. For which I did purchase one in the .22 caliber after the results of the 25 auto variant.
I am no fan of berreta, but I don't let bias, even my own, from standing in the way of owning a good firearm.
The cartridge speaks for itself, data on it is out there in reams, so I don't need to wear it out.
The squirrel will definetly be trouble if he comes near enough to the bobcat.0
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