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Last Win MD 12s....Why Discounted?

mljackso
In 1985 Winchester issued the last ever of the Model 12s, in Pigeon Grade, 480 made. Why are these "last of an era" shotguns valued less that the other Pigeons that trickled out in the years prior to 1985? Seems like these would be valued higher, being the last Model 12s ever made. Anybody know?

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Comments

10 comments

Date Votes
  • nmyers
    Note the letterhead of your factory letter: It reads US Repeating Arms Company. It may be the last of the Model 12's, but it wasn't made by Winchester; it was made by USRA.

    Neal
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  • GuvamintCheese
    A pigeon grade Y series should be graded on condition and grade of wood.
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  • mljackso
    quote:Note the letterhead of your factory letter: It reads US Repeating Arms Company. It may be the last of the Model 12's, but it wasn't made by Winchester; it was made by USRA.

    NealNot being argumentative, being a relative novice, but didn't "Winchester" have many different formal company names as the years went by and owners changed?
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  • He Dog
    quote:Not being argumentative, being a relative novice, but didn't "Winchester" have many different formal company names as the years went by and owners changed?

    You are correct, but the quality of firearms produced was not the same between one company and another, and the US Repeating Arms production is considered the bottom of the barrel. While Cartod is certainly correct that the product should be judged on its own merits, it doesn't work that way, and in fact many of the products produced in the US Repeating Arms era lack the fit and finish of previous years, and economizing brought changes unwelcome to buyers of the time, which continues today among collectors.

    Bert said it better and with better graphics.
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  • GuvamintCheese
    quote:Originally posted by He Dog
    quote:Not being argumentative, being a relative novice, but didn't "Winchester" have many different formal company names as the years went by and owners changed?

    You are correct, but the quality of firearms produced was not the same between one company and another, and the US Repeating Arms production is considered the bottom of the barrel. While Cartod is certainly correct that the product should be judged on its own merits, it doesn't work that way, and in fact many of the products produced in the US Repeating Arms era lack the fit and finish of previous years, and economizing brought changes unwelcome to buyers of the time, which continues today among collectors.
    I learn something new every day. I figured all post 64 guns were pretty much judged equally as being post 64. Is there a new market emerging for the various phases of post 64 guns?
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  • Bert H.
    There is an important point that was made that some of you are missing.

    The gun in question was not made by WINCHESTER!

    The Winchester firearms division of Olin Industries ceased making firearms when Olin sold the old New Haven factory to the newly formed U.S. Repeating Arms Company back in early 1981.

    Regardless of how nice this gun might be, it is not truly a WINCHESTER, and as such, it simply will not ever be valued the same by the diehard WINCHESTER collectors as a pre-64 Pigeon grade gun will be.
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  • Bert H.
    quote:Originally posted by cartod

    I learn something new every day. I figured all post 64 guns were pretty much judged equally as being post 64. Is there a new market emerging for the various phases of post 64 guns?


    Hello Todd,

    No, there is not a "new" market... it has been that way from the minute Winchester got out of the business of making firearms. There are no true "phases" of post 1963 Winchester guns... you simply have post-1963 through 1980 Winchester made guns, and then you have U.S. Repeating Arms Co. made guns starting in 1981 (with the Trademarked Winchester name stamped on them).
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  • mljackso
    It's clear now...thanks to you all.
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  • GuvamintCheese
    Now I see. thanks Bert.
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  • mljackso
    A further point. Y Series Pigeon Grades after 1980 are discounted not only in comparison to pre-64 Pigeons but also in comparison to pre-1981 Pigeons. Seems like there are really 3 relevant phases in collecting, related to the manufacturing quality of shotguns produced: pre 1964 (most valuable), 1964 through 1980 (next in value), and after 1980 when US Repeating Arms Company took over in early 1981 (least value). These phases seem to relate to manufacturing quality and not age of firearm. Of course all values depend upon condition, but all else equal, these 3 phases seem to apply, based upon pricing guides I have used.
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