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Mutli-caliber receiver and NFA rules

577trex
I'm building a AR with a "multiple caliber" stamped lower. I plan on having 2 different caliber uppers (for now...). I would also like to register the receiver as a SBR.
So my question is, when I fill out the paperwork, do I have to specify a caliber for the rifle, or can I swap out multiple short-barreled uppers with one registered receiver? (effectively saving me some tax-stamps[:D])
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7 comments

Date Votes
  • nmyers
    It doesn't work that way with NFA items.

    An NFA weapon is often a combination of parts, not just a receiver. For example a handgun & matching holster could be an NFA item if the gun can be fired without removing it from the holster. An SBR is a combination of the receiver AND barrel.

    If you possess > 1 short barrel, & > 1 AR (either lower or complete), it might appear that you possess > 1 SBR; 1 or more could be construed as an unregistered SBR. You are about to step on a slippery slope. You need a consultation with ATF, & you need to get a written opinion or approved request before you buy anything.

    Neal
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  • Mobuck
    The new form 4473 has a space for selling/buying an open receiver-hence no caliber listed. As stated by the previous poster, that has nothing to do with NFA. Having the parts in the same place is essentially the same as having the assembled firearm and can get you in trouble. This why I got rid of an AR pistol.
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  • 577trex
    Thanks a lot for the responses guys!
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  • beantownshootah
    This is relevant. Per the ATF, an SBR is by definition a rifle with one OR MORE barrels under 16".

    It sounds like under that definition, you MIGHT be able to collect a bunch of barrels with one receiver and have the whole shebang classified as ONE SBR.

    Please do NOT take my word for it:

    sorrycharlie.jpg

    I would get a specific advisory letter from the BATFE on this particular issue before proceeding.

    Now, on "constructive possession" the legal concept is that if you control all the pieces (of anything), you control the whole thing.

    The point is, you can't simply disassemble your illegal weapons cache to make it legal. So long as you own (or control) any collection of parts that COULD be assembled into an illegal weapon, than you can be charged with constructive possession of that illegal weapon. Whether or not you'll be convicted is up to a jury or judge weighing the evidence, and like any crime, intent has to be proved.

    Now to be clear, the parts DO NOT all have to be in the same place for you to be charged or convicted. Its just that if they are, it makes it that much easier for the BATFE to make their case.

    For example, if you had a short barrel, and you had an AR-15 lower with buttstock, then lacking good evidence to the contrary the presumption has to be that you own both because you want to assemble them together and create an illegal weapon. The parts don't necessarily HAVE to be in the same room (or even same State) for that to be true.

    If you happened to have one AR-15 rifle receiver, and five different uppers, some of which have short barrels, you'd potentially be hosed, no matter where exactly the short uppers were kept.

    That said, there is nothing necessarily illegal about owning an AR-15 pistol AND an AR-15 rifle (so long as the pistol is built on a designated pistol receiver).

    Sure you *could* swap the uppers to create an illegal SBR, but as long as you didn't actually do it, or otherwise express intent to do it, it would be pretty hard for the BATFE to ever make a charge stick.

    And in fact there is some legal precedent (with Contender rifles/pistols) that in this exact case of making an illegal SBR from a swappable pistol/rifle combo, suggesting that just owning the pieces isn't enough.

    I don't know of any case where an individual who merely OWNED both and was actually prosecuted for constructive possession of an SBR. I also don't know of any BATFE advisory opinion stating that owning both an AR-15 pistol and rifle at the same time isn't permitted, and given the ever-increasing popularity of these things, you'd think if it were, such an opinion would exist.

    If anyone knows of such a case, or an opinion, please share.

    So far as I know, so long as you have a complete pistol, and a complete rifle, you're fine. Obviously keeping them in separate places wouldn't hurt. What you do NOT want to do is have both disassembled in the same place at the same time.
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  • 577trex
    Thanks for that letter beantownshootah, that gives me some hope. I guess it's time to contact the batfe.

    I'm glad you also touched on "constructive possession," as that was my next question. If I had another AR sitting around the house (say another lower with a Bohica 50 bmg upper[:D]), could that land me in hot water.
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  • Nwcid
    It is kind of a greyish area here.

    I am not sure what the letter bean posted has to do with your issue, but it is a good letter for all to see. I am not sure how they can rule like that since NORMALLY it requires (by the ATF) a permanent change to change the status of a firearm. Example a guy owns a legal M-16 that the lower is stamped .223/5.56 on. He can legally and without any paperwork put a 9mm upper as long as it is not a permanent change. Then even if it was a permanent change I believe it is only suggested to send in a form stating the change. So in this letter I am not sure how they can rule the other way (oh wait it is the ATF) since the receiver is a pistol, was transfered as a pistol, and has a temporary change to something else.

    Now you have a few thoughts on the SBR route. On another board a member just sent a Form 1 in and had listed multi calibers got rejected. He called the ATF and here is what he was told:

    "I called back today and talked to the examiner. She said, in fact that this has recently changed and that they SHOULD no longer accept MULTI as a caliber.

    Like was said above, she recommended I put a primary caliber in 4c and list additional calibers in the 4h box."

    As far as uppers you can look at it a few ways and might try reading on some of the NFA boards what others do in your situation. I am not as up on SBR as some other NFA stuff since they are not legal in my state. I would say if you have 3, 5 10, however many short uppers they would all be legal if you have a legal use for them such as a pistol or SBR lower. If you have another AR lower laying around then some say you should only have the number of short uppers that you have legal lowers for.

    Just some thoughts.


    EDIT:

    Been I am pretty sure you know I was not beating up your post. Here is an across the board issue of how a person reads things.

    quote:Originally posted by beantownshootah


    The reason I posted it, is because this advisory letter contains the formal definition of a short-barreled rifle, acknowledged by the ATF. As mentioned above, the legal definition specifies that an SBR rifle may have "multiple barrels". Since the question was about putting multiple uppers (ie barrels) on one SBR-registered lower, its relevant.



    As you state it says it talks about multiple barrels, it says "...a rifle having one or more barrels less then sixteen inches....." To me this reads as talking about something like a double rifle that has more then one barrel. By the way it reads to me they were filling in the gap of a guy saying "well I have 2 barrels on my gun so even though it is 11" it is NOT an SBR". I dont see it addressing "other" uppers since they are nothing but parts till you put them on the firearm (serial numbered part).

    That is just how I read and understand it.
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  • beantownshootah
    quote:Originally posted by Nwcid
    It is kind of a greyish area here.

    I am not sure what the letter bean posted has to do with your issue
    You're right that subject of the ATF letter *IS* on a different topic. (I also agree that the content of the ATF letter itself is questionable for several reasons, but that's a whole other discussion that irrelevant here, and largely academic).

    The reason I posted it, is because this advisory letter contains the formal definition of a short-barreled rifle, acknowledged by the ATF. As mentioned above, the legal definition specifies that an SBR rifle may have "multiple barrels". Since the question was about putting multiple uppers (ie barrels) on one SBR-registered lower, its relevant.

    I can't speak to the specific details of how to go about actually doing it, but I suspect that once you have a receiver registered as an SBR (registered in whatever caliber/s), then you probably can legally use other short uppers on that receiver (ie without separately registering each and every one).

    And for 577trex, since you've just announced your intent to create an SBR in this public forum, regardless of whether or not you own an AR-15 pistol, I'd make darn sure NOT to obtain any short uppers until AFTER you're sure all the "i"s are dotted and the "t"s are crossed, so to speak.

    Lastly, on constructive possession, I think ncwid's advice about uppers and lowers is good. You can probably have as many short uppers as you like, so long as you have appropriate legal lowers to stick them on (either pistol or registered SBR). But if you do happen to have MORE short uppers than legal lower receivers, you probably should not ALSO have unbuilt RIFLE receivers lying around either.



    EDIT
    quote:As you state it says it talks about multiple barrels, it says "...a rifle having one or more barrels less then sixteen inches....." To me this reads as talking about something like a double rifle that has more then one barrel. By the way it reads to me they were filling in the gap of a guy saying "well I have 2 barrels on my gun so even though it is 11" it is NOT an SBR". I dont see it addressing "other" uppers since they are nothing but parts till you put them on the firearm (serial numbered part).
    I agree, in context it does seem that the law is suggesting a double-rifle (like a double shotgun). However, the legal definition of what a SBR is, is still relevant here, and it does specify "multiple barrels" as permissible.

    This is why I said you MIGHT be able to have multiple separate barrels and one receiver (instead of you CAN, etc), and this is why you need an advisory opinion from the ATF.

    I kind of doubt the ATF will have a problem with a registered SBR capable of caliber-conversion (which is essentially what an AR-15 platform rifle is). After all, you can only shoot one caliber at a time, and the ability to convert between them doesn't make the gun any more dangerous or concealable.
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