Animal Defense pump Shotgun Cont.
I don't understand the glamor or utility of a pump shotgun in dangerous situations when you're handicapped and may not be able to turn to properly face the threat. You may not have two hands available.
If it must be a shotgun it should be automatic because of less recoil and you don't have to play with a pump. You may not have a free hand.
A handgun with a lanyard would stay with you if you fell out of the chair or had to leave it to get at a rear attacker.
A 10mm 1911 or Glock or one of S&W's new heavy revolvers might be more practical. It should be fitted with a lanyard loop.
A Taurus Judge firing the 3" 410 and 000 Buck might work for everything but big bears.
A good green laser will eliminate the need to get in back of the sights. Forget the other optical sights that only increase bulk.
In any event your weapon needs to be secured to you with a lanyard or one of the combat tested single point slings.
If it must be a shotgun it should be automatic because of less recoil and you don't have to play with a pump. You may not have a free hand.
A handgun with a lanyard would stay with you if you fell out of the chair or had to leave it to get at a rear attacker.
A 10mm 1911 or Glock or one of S&W's new heavy revolvers might be more practical. It should be fitted with a lanyard loop.
A Taurus Judge firing the 3" 410 and 000 Buck might work for everything but big bears.
A good green laser will eliminate the need to get in back of the sights. Forget the other optical sights that only increase bulk.
In any event your weapon needs to be secured to you with a lanyard or one of the combat tested single point slings.
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quote:Originally posted by v35
I don't understand
This is correct, in one of the mans threads "in the General forum" it was brought up he was in Canada where handguns were frowned upon, etc, etc , etc and I believe he had some other points. What we all should learn at one time is "WE" do not always know what is best for someone else. It may be a hard pill to swallow but it's best to not take it personally. We praise the pump gun much for home defense but there is never a guarantee that both hands will be available then either.
I was however unaware a man in a wheelchair was unable to turn until now tho but somehow able to fire behind his back with a huge pistol.
I either made my point or it was lost, either way , again it is nothing personal, sometime on the internet it is akin to kicking a mans dog if our needs/wants/desire/opinions/abilities differ from another.
As an example the man has repeated that a full stock is too cumbersome , and I for one , believe him. I am willing to take his word as he should know. But folks still keep telling him .... he needs a full stock. The man is in a wheelchair , not an idiot, listen to what he is saying.0 -
I don't know if it is illegal in Canada or not but wonder if he can cut the stock down a bit--like Clyde Barrow did so that he would at least have some stock to put under the arm but not be cumbersome. Handguns are legal in Canada but there are a lot of hoops to go through to get them and that might not be an option for him(a S&W.460 would be a good way to go for big bears.) I also like the H&R Tamer in 20 gauge although it is only a single shot--but it would be easier to hang onto. Too bad he doesn't live in the states where he could have one of those Serbu 12 gauges[:D] 0 -
It was a rhetorical statement on pump shotguns. However, there were enough positive points made there to address unmentioned alternate solutions that exclude handguns.
Somehow on this website, pump shotguns are often recommended as the optimum firearm for dangerous situations in spite of their obvious limitations. They are especially limiting in this case of a wheelchair bound man. A semiauto shotgun here would be less limiting.
To him it's not a hobby but a serious or critical need. Recognizing that, I feel it incumbent upon me to take his request very seriously and offer my best advice, which I did.
He didn't mention he was ineligible to own a handgun.
I assume you are unaware they are restricted but legal in Canada.
It strikes me from your comment you are both unimaginative and uncreative in problem solving. In such cases this forum may teach you something if you read and save that kind of reply.0 -
See , now your feelings are hurt. I knew that would happen. The man says a stocked firearm is too cumbersome. I guess he just does not know you know what is cumbersome for him in his chair more than he does. Man says handgun isn't much of an option and for whatever reason is not interested in one , he said so, "look in the general discussion area" , what say we hold him down and give him pink belly until we can force one upon him. The only thing I have learned here on this forum so far is it is no different than any others, which is how I knew my point would be lost .... on some anyhow. 0 -
Here is one of his quotes
"Thanks River Rat, I forgot all about location when answering about handguns. Yes, handguns are pretty much taboo up here, so a backup (at least a legal backup) is not an option. Humans are not really a consideration, but you never know these days. I have a cut down (19") A-5 that I use right now, and am thinking of sticking with it. But, there is the convenience on concealment with the pistol-grip pumpgun when stuck in my gunboots on the chair or bike.
Thanks for all your help, post more if you can think of anything.
Lanark Sixgunner"
Now he seems to know what he wants for whatever reasons he wants them and he seems to be using an A-5 right now , so it's safe to say he has handled firearms in his chair and may have some idea.
Actually , perhaps he is just unaware of your status with so many posts here. That could go a long way to proving to him that you really do know whats best for him ...... but again , I'm just saying is all.
Is it really that hard to admit someone may know what they want?
On second thought , there is no need to answer that as I am too old to engage in such foolishness any longer.0 -
An A5,long recoil action shotgun,is an unnecessarily hard kicking gun and a bad choice for concealment, having that big bump on the receiver. An 1100 or similar gas gun like Benelli isn't, and would be a better bet for follow up shots. I said nothing about cutting or not cutting a shotgun stock.
If he was sure of his best self defense option, he wouldn't be asking advice would he?
From the bear attack books I've read, many attacks are from behind. Other attacks are just as likely not frontal.
Ask yourself how he's going to defend from the back or right side without throwing himself out of the chair and rolling into position?
Whatever gun he has, needs to be attached to him and be very handy.
Grizzlys may stand, bluff and charge you but western black bears and mountain lions will stalk and eat you. Read a little and you'll see not being on your feet puts you at a serious disadvantage.
Don't forget his hands will be on his wheels propelling himself.
In his shoes, I'd also have a dog or two for early warning.
Hunter, if you have nothing constructive to add or say why do you waste time and space in the "Experts Column".
If you had a question,it'd be a different story.0 -
just putting in my 2 cents worth. My father in law just purchased a mossberg tactical pump, with a collapsible stock, pistol grip, ghost ring sights and an extended mag tube. Since he stated that he wanted a pump I think that might be the best compromise. The gentleman in question could shorten the stock to his comfort still have the pistol grip and tuck the stock under his arm to enhance controlability. This is according to what he wanted not what I want or necessarily would do. 0 -
The man said he had a Browning A5 automatic. That is an obsolete, hard kicking shotgun due to it's long recoil design. Modern gas operated automatics are much softer recoiling guns. The Remington 1100 and Benelli are two more modern guns that are softer recoiling guns. In addition, they have more compact receivers for better concealability. That was one of the needs of the questioner.
If you do some reading on actual bear and cat attacks you'll see there's a good chance you may not have two free or functioning hands to pump a shotgun.
The man's propelling himself in a wheel chair and doesn't need any nonessential tasks for his hands.
Why suggest a pump gun?0 -
What he needs is someone who knows, and is close enough to reach out and touch him. Put shotguns in his hands and let him shoot. Is that an option? Cause everything else is guess work. 0 -
HUH? No need to guess when a little reading on actual situations might help to form an opinion.
There's plenty of nonfiction by experts out there to read.
A very serious long knife in the left boot would be a good supplement.0
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