Japanese Arisaka type 99
I've found a sporterized version of one of these in very good shape, with scope, for under $100. I'd like to use it for casual target shooting, possibly hunting (I'm a total beginner). I thought it might be a good choice as a beginner's hunting rifle 'cause it's so cheap. Any thoughts on this? What about this 7.7 caliber that I've never heard of. How hard is it gonna be to find ammo for this thing?Thanks!
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My dad captured this when he was in the Pacific Theater. There is no bayonet, the crest has been filed off (nice & neat), and the sling is not the original leather sling, the current sling is braided. You can tell the rifle has seen war by some of the marks in the stock. It has the dust cover over the bolt, the dust cap for the end of the barrel, and the aircraft sites are rock solid!
(sorry photos are a little dark)
Can anyone give me some more history about the rifle? I also thought to get rid of it, either sell, trade, or donate to MAPS Air Museum in Canton, Ohio along with other WWII items still in my dads 3Cs foot locker.
Thank you for your help!
Daniel0 -
Most capture guns have the mum intact. That said, the rest of the piece looks original, and the muzzle cover is quite rare. A defaced mum doesn't mean it WASN'T a capture, it just makes it more likely that he picked it up as part of the occupation forces if he was so involved, rather than on the battlefield. Naturally if he has capture papers to verify the story the piece would be worth a lot more.
Without this I don't know how interested a museum would be, nor could you prove to a buyer that it was a capture piece. I'd put the value as it sits around $200-$250 for the gun, add about another $100-$150 for the sling, dust cover, and muzzle cover. So I'd wager not more than $500. If he has the capture papers (or if you do) a bit more. Would also be worth maybe 20% more with the unground mum.
I'd be interested in knowing how the mum was defaced. I've seen some capture guns that individual soldiers just pinged a bit when they knew the gig was up so to speak.0 -
Look here for factory markings and other goodies:
> http://www.radix.net/~bbrown/japanese_markings.html <
Use the full serial # off the reciever. If other parts do not match up, this is common. Emperial Japan did things different than us. Also, google "Arisaka type 99" for a whole slew of other links. Wikipedia is ok for basic info, too.
Daniel, how sure are are you about the sling not being original? I ask for many "last ditch" 99's were implemented with whatever was on hand for the Japanese towards their bitter end. Your hand braided sling may be the real thing! Worth finding out about, anyways. If anything, I'm questioning the dust cover, barrel cap & AA sights as they were often done away with. But hey, in wartime, anything is possible. The ground mum has question has already been asked.
Lastly, and this your rifle of course, yet your dad gave alot to acquire it just by being there. Enough guilt tripping, for none of my beeswax why you may perhaps choose to part with it. Dollar wise, these days I'd not dare to quote without looking at some of the ended auctions. So, suggest you take a peek also. Be fore-warned... firearms/relics from WW2 ETO have always commanded higher prices than their Pacific counter-parts. Why, I could never figure out? Donating to a museum is a fine way to go, and you may get a tax-deduction? Don't hurt to ask. Did your dad have capture papers? This always adds interest, though not surprised if not. Not that any of our G.I.'s would ever smuggle home anything! ahem. ;o)
45er0 -
Hi Jonk!
Every once in a while I can get lucky and take a good photo. Some are better than others, lol. Here's one where the mum, as you called it, would have been. Can't see it in my photo but you can see a rasp mark, like from a file.
As for paper work, I could swear I have read something to the nature of what you mentioned. Dad has been passed since March 2000 and mom has quite possibly thrown away some things; but I know I've read his DD214 once and I swear I've read something about being allowed to have something. I'm going to see about doing a more through search this week!
Here's the dust cover over the barrel and cleaning rod
I am seriously trying to work with this 1.3MP camera I have, just can't get that macro close-up I want, lol.
The number is '46442'
Hi 45er!
Gonna answer your post in the same response,,,
Thank you for that website, I bookmarked it!! and I'm refering to it as I type this out. You asked about the sling being original? Well? I can't be 100% positive, but prior research I did on Google ( I was one step ahead of you on the Google searching for this rifle, I could just never find enough info ) stated that this rifle had a leather sling. eBay: people are selling the parts for this rifle including a leather sling (a reproduction). It is quite possible that this rifle came out of the factory without the leather sling and the braided sling was added by the soldier.
At the moment, I don't have a right side view of the dust cover over the receiver, I'll get one later, but here is one more photo showing the dust cover from the back of the receiver.
I can't see how anything would not be original on this rifle? My dad made piddilly squat for wages after the war and would never had tried to master craft something for it, and I guess you're going to have to take my word for it that I haven't tampered with it or that I am trying to make it look like something it is not.
These photos were taken in my basement, as soon as I get a nice sunshiney day and I've mastered my camera to the best of my ability, you name the part of the rifle you want a photo of and I will do my best to get the clearest photo!
Onwards,,,anyways, you asked me why I would part with it? The biggest reason is that I can not take care of it like a true collector would take care of it. Don't get me wrong, I have stuff of my dad that I will keep 'til my dying day, but his war relics are finding better homes all around the globe. I can't give a better reason than that. I also feel that it is a way to display my dad in a proud sort of way, just like when I took a WWII photo my dad had, got some copies, and took it to have it hung at the 356th Fighter Group.
I still have things I gave my dad, items I gave him for his birthday or christmas that I will never part with, but his war items should be displayed proudly somewhere else.
I also want to thank both of you for responding
Daniel0 -
Your T-99 appears to be a Kokura Arsenal series #23. Which would make it one of the desirable early war mfg models. As the war wore on and went increasingly bad for the Japanese, the quality of mfg got increasingly worse. To the point that late war "Last Ditch" T-99's are of questionable safety to fire.
All the features of the rifle are correct, (AA sights, long cleanig rod, Knurled safety knob, cupped steel buttplate & dust cover) with exception of sling. Which might well be an original substitute for the usual military sling w/buckle. However it appears to be missing the Monopod.
To find out if bolt/dust cover are original/matching, check the 3 digit serial numbers on bottom side bolt handle, and rear of DC. They should match last 3 of serial numbers on reciever.
As stated before, the scrubbed Mum suggests post war acquisition. But if rifle was batleield acquired very late in war (IE:Okinawa), possible your dad didn't get home w/it untill after scrub orders issued at wars end. (part of deal Gen Mac made w/Japanese) But generally, fully scrubbed Mum's are considered post war acquisitions. Defaced Mum's (as in chop or file marks on Mum) are possibly battlefield done.
Altho intact Mum is a plus in value, the most important factor is if rifle is matching and otherwise original.
A mis-matched bolt, scubbed Mum rifle is worth far less than a matching.
BTW: Bolts usually became mis-matched aboard troop transport ship on voyage back to U.S. The bolts were usually removed from rifles and stored seperately. Soldier kept rest of rifle. Then upon arrival in U.S. port, bolts were given back. But often little attention was paid re-match them to rifle.)0 -
Howdy again Daniel,
Good info from Jonk & Fatstrat, so you are well on your way. With Fatstrat's observation, (these latter photo's helped a lot!), of being an early production, then yes, the covers, sights, etc. would be genuine for the piece. They look it, too, which is not always the case. Reason of my asking about the covers as many were tossed as too noisy or just plain lost while in-field, but not always. And in-field your rifle surely seems to have been.
Too, the hot, wet, humid, Pacific jungle-rot conditions on an early rifle like this, would take it's toll on original issue leather strap in no time. So hence the after-factory braided strap? Worth more in just personal value to whoever soldier toted this 99 around, my opinion. (Course, if it was hauled around the Aleutian Islands, then there goes that theory, hah!).
So there lays the mystic of such specimens, for mixed with some fact is plenty of conjecture, which appeals to many of us. And, heya Daniel, your dad's and your word was never in question. We're all just going on bits and pieces of previously learned knowledge, and also the fact that each war-time firearm has it own indiviual history which can never be fully known.
As far as being given to a musuem, Jonk hit it on the spot concerning capture papers and/or other provable history, maybe especially the type that you mentioned, yet still worth a try? However, perhaps look around your area, or better, where your dad was from or best known, for a local Historical Museum? These usually small establishments, ran by local volunteers, are much more inclined to take these type of items. And along with the family's personal write-up history about such items being enough to more than satisfy. This I know from experience.
Please let us know what else you find out.
45er0 -
P.S. Now I'm getting obsessive! Daniel, After looking more and more at your T99 photos, I'd do something soon about the never ending rust.
I know you stated, "I can not take care of it like a true collector would take care of it." Well, my friend, even a bit of car oil and a used 3M dish scour pad can brighten the day. (I steal them pads from the kitchen when they're looked pretty worn out).
Of course, good gun oil or other products mentioned in other threads are better, but any good clean oil will do along with a clean but worn pad.
Not to get the oil on the wood, have paper towels handy just in case. Proceed to use oil sparingly, putting some on the pad and work gently into the exposed metal. Wipe with rag/paper towel, then rub in with clean rag/paper towel a light coat of oil to finish. Do it again if you feel confident. This will merely get out the dirt & dust, some surface rust, and help to prevent more rust, at least for a time. And it will look ever so better, too!
One never knows what the person asking has in way of experience, so hope to not sound condescending if this is too elementary. But then we all started out in elemetary, eh?
Best,
45er0 -
Yep, There's really not alot to "taking care of it like a collector". Try to keep it in a dry place and give it an occasional oiling about covers it. I can't imagine parting w/such a historical family heirloom. But I guess it's your business. Is there no one else in the family that might be interested? 0 -
I hope you decide to keep it. Your dad saw a lot. In addition to his Pacific service, my take on what you wrote above indicates he was also with the 356th Fighter Group! Neat history! Best, Joe 0 -
It turns out the dust cover # for the receiver is 463...and as for the underside of the bolt, all I can read is a 4...and I can't read the rest, it's too worn.
The capture papers are for a Japanese flag. I knew I read something some time back...The flag looks to be a story by itself, it has writing on it. So....I guess he borrowed these after the war, lol. [:D]
Here's another funny tidbit,,,dad had a watch made. The band is stainless and tattooed with the places he was at. I will get a photo of it soon and post it up here. Tattooed on the band is: PI, Hawaii, G-Canal, N. Britain, Manus, Luzon, Panay, and Negros. On the other side of the band is what looks to be his serial number, part of his last name and the word princess.
Yeah, as I was looking for the numbers, I oiled and wiped down the whole rifle. Looks a darn site cleaner [:)]
A few people have told me to keep his war relics but I look at it this way; He has been gone for over 9 years now, he left me with a lot of junk, lol, and other things that I will cherish. The things I will cherish the most are things I gave him for birthdays and christmas and other times. Actually MAPS said they would set up a display along with a name of who it is about. I don't have to permentally donate it, I can put it on loan. I feel it would be a cool way to show my dad off who was never anyone popular to anyone except to the family. All there is is just mom and I, dad's only brother died in 2003.
I'll post more photos later, it's 12:20AM est and I need to get. Hope I answered everyone, if not, remind me and ask again, lol.0 -
Ready for some more photos?
Just a side joke to start off,,,I haven't been in the south end of the basement for about 2 weeks when I saw this!!!
That is a spare computer I have and the vine is surfing the internet when I am not around [:D]
Onwards; Here's the watch, not the best quality, I need a tripod.
I got lucky and my hand was steady as could be and got the underside of the bolt number. Upon looking at it further, it looks like a 4 but then again, it doesn't?
Then the back side of the dust cover, there's no way I can produce the quality photo I need with the camera I have. The number is 463.
Does this help out any?0 -
Good on you, DanielB! Highly respect your decisions. And a good choice to where it's going, as you said, for others to view a touch of our history. You can be proud of your pops.
Dust cover #'s closely match the reciever ser.#, so not an exact, but they came from the same unit of some kind?
Some other web-site could possibly interpert your flag's writing, I'd bet. Been some years ago, but I think there was a site called risingsun, something along those lines. Worth searching around for.
Thanks again for your great postings.
Best
45er0 -
45er,
I have a chance to talk to a guy who lives close by and get some more information, just waiting on the information to get back to me so I can show him some of these items.
I have a few people also interested in this rifle. As soon as I get some more history and a starting value, I need to read up on what I need to do to put it up on the auction.
It is most definately an interesting piece of history!0
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