1917A1 Value
Appreciate your comments on the estimated value of a 1917A1 water cooled class III machine gun that is all original except for right side plate including the correct tripod and cradle. Let's assume the overall condition is very good to excellent!
Thanks,
Ken
Thanks,
Ken
0
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does it have registration papers if not Value is 20 years in federal prison. . If it was not registered on or before 1968 then It can not be registered now. 0 -
Sorry, but yes it does have the BATF papers 0 -
anything full auto nowadays is getting 15-20 thousand bucks, plus the $200 stamp.
you said the rt side plate isn't original. was it machined to fire semi or is it still full auto?
post some pics if you can.
tom0 -
On these types of machineguns virtually the entire value of the firearm revolves around the registered side plate. Even if there were no other parts included, the registered plate alone would bring huge money because it could be used by anyone with their own 1917 parts kit to build a fully functional and fully legal Machinegun.
Here is a link to someone selling jsut the tripod:
http://v4.beta.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=1315196120 -
My take: Assuming the M1917 in the condition you claim
With registered NFA right sideplate with or without condenser..$30,000-$40,000 (or higher)
With unregistered NFA right sideplate (tossing the sideplate-selling remainder) with condenser..$1,500-2,000
With non NFA right sideplate (semi auto only) with condenser..$3,000-$4,000
Above values not absolute, but posted as a comparative guide only. Good luck!! Joe0 -
Mark made a critical point: You don't have a "machine gun", you have a "machine gun parts kit". ATF considers the receiver to "be" the gun; in this case, the numbered part considered the receiver is the right side plate. Without a right side plate, you just have a bunch of parts.
I think there are few, if any, registered NFA right side plates out there. I don't know if anyone is currently doing the semi-auto conversions, but it might be smart to check with Ohio Ordnance Works.
The "value" of your parts kit may be limited to the worth of a couple of parts, primarily the tripod. So, probably the best answer to your question is, "We have no idea."
Neal0 -
Thanks for the replies to date. In answer to at least one question, the right side plate is a DLO who initially machined it to full auto which remains the current configuration. Gun is registered on a Form 3.
What would the value now be for the gun and accessories? Any other questions, please advise. I am relatively new to this process.
Thanks,
Ken0 -
Now, I see! A misplaced modifier & a crucial piece of missing data pointed us in the wrong direction.
I read your post as saying that there was no side plate, not that there was a registered commercial one.
The good news is that it really IS a machine gun. The bad news is that the "Form 3" indicates that it is a "dealer's sample", & can only be transferred to someone in the Class III firearms business. If it were on a "Form 4", it would be fully transferable (& worth well into the range Givette quoted); but, it's not. So, the value would be minimal, maybe not more than the sum of the parts; most Class III dealers are making good money buying & selling transferable guns, not investing in guns they can't sell.
Neal0 -
More information on the actual registration is needed. A Form 3 can mean many things because it is the typical transfer form used between licensees who are Special Occupational Taxpayers (SOT). Here is the way this usually works: DLO produced and registered the right side plate (we HOPE) before the May, 1986 ban went into effect and I am a Class 3 dealer and an SOT who wants the side plate to use to assemble a functional 1917 BMG using my own parts kit. Since I am a dealer and an SOT there is no way in hell I am going to use a From 4 and pay a $200 transfer tax on the side plate since I am already paying a $500 per year SOT as a dealer. I pay for the plate, send in a Form 3 to the BATFE who quickly approve it (Form 3s are fast), DLO sends me the plate and I have my gun smith built my pats kit up on the plate turning it into a fully functional machine gun. If I want to sell it to another dealer we can use the same Form 3 but if I sell it to a private party then he has to use an approved Form 4 and pay the $200 transfer tax. If the plate was produced after May, 1986 then it is a restricted dealer sales sample and cannot be transferred to a private party...EVER. Only other dealers who have police demo letters can buy it and of course they would be using an approved Form 3. 0 -
I have asked for a copy of the paperwork to review. I understand the plate was manufactured around 1982. I personally know a Class III dealer locally who will transfer it me for just a processing fee.
Now, what would be a reasonable valued price?
Thanks guys for your expert views.
Ken0 -
Sorry, According to my Class III dealer, I will pay $200 twice. Does this make sense?
Ken0 -
You keep asking about the value but is this because you are being allowed to set the buying price on this machine gun or just want to make someone an offer? If so then that is great, if not then just tell us how much the asking price is and we can tell you if it is in the ball park. A registered side plate alone would sell for well over $15K and the parts are worth whatever they are worth, but fully assembled and ready to run the gun would easily retail for $20,000 or more. Your dealer may want to transfer the gun to himself using an approved Form 4 ($200) and then transfer it to you using another approved Form 4 ($200) making it a $400 total transfer tax with you paying his tax for him. There are a lot of variables here and I am still not sure I understand everything about this entire post, and I am a dealer myself with nearly 30 years experience in these sorts of matters. 0
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