Smallest non-revolver 9mm
Interested in concealed carry smallest non-revolver and deployment(holster)? Just your opininion. I've been looking at the LCP and wonder if I'm on the right track. Also, PX4,RAMI. Just your opinion and why?
I have a S&W 38 Airweight revolver now, and not convinced it's a bad way to go, it's certainly easy to carry, but kicks like a mule and not very accurate from more than 15 feet (at least for me)
I have a S&W 38 Airweight revolver now, and not convinced it's a bad way to go, it's certainly easy to carry, but kicks like a mule and not very accurate from more than 15 feet (at least for me)
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This is the smallest, it's a Rohrbaugh. GOOGLE the name, all your questions will be answered. 
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The Kel-Tec 9mm is very similar to the Ruger LCP if you like that size. It's also lighter and A LOT cheaper than the Rohrbaugh. Check out some pictures in the auction. Personally I like the Kahr PM9, not the smallest or lightest but in the running and handles the "kick" very well. 14oz empty. Priced in between the other 2. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by rufe-snow
This is the smallest, it's a Rohrbaugh. GOOGLE the name, all your questions will be answered.
The Rohrbaugh lists as 3.7" height and 5.2" length. The AMT Back Up in 9mm lists as a touch over 4" height and 5.7" length. Perhaps the Rohrbaugh has the advantage of going "bang" every time the trigger is pulled. I have a 45 ACP version and it works fine, but the AMT rep isn't all that great.
Not sure, but I think the Rohrbaugh has an alloy frame - 12 oz? The AMTs are all steel, the weight difference would make me like the Rohrbaugh even if it were not smaller. It is more expensive.0 -
Of Course the LCP is .380 not 9mm. Also take a look at the .380 Desert Eagle. 0 -
Since there was no restrictions listed other than non-revolver, a derringer also falls in this category. 0 -
quote:He Dog Of Course the LCP is .380 not 9mm. Also take a look at the .380 Desert Eagle.
Well, technically a .380 *IS* a 9mm. The .380 ACP is also known as the 9x17mm, and in Europe they call it the 9mm short (ie corto, kurz, etc). Its just not the same as what Americans shooters usually mean when they say "9mm" (ie the 9mm luger, aka 9x19mm, 9mm parabellum, etc).
Anyway, the Ruger LCP or Kel-Tec 3-AT (the two guns are extremely similar) make good choices for lightweight pocket carry. You trade off some power and reliability from the snubnose for a significantly smaller and lighter overall package.
The PX4 and RAMI are each good in their own ways, but these are FAR larger than the other pocket guns, as well as heavier.
I happen to love the CZ design, but I personally wouldn't be inclined to carry a RAMI (ditto for the P4). The reason is that this is just a bit big and heavy for pocket carry. If I can't comfortably carry the gun in a pocket, then I have to carry it on a belt holster. If I am already going to be carrying a gun on a belt holster, then I might as well carry a bigger gun.
Of course your pockets may be different than mine, as may be your needs or anatomy. If you like the guns, then the RAMI or P4 (or Glock 26, compact SW99, SW 3913, etc) could be good choices.
quote:Originally posted by rsnyder55
Since there was no restrictions listed other than non-revolver, a derringer also falls in this category.
That's true, but the common derringers modeled after the old Remington are still all bulkier than the Rohrbaugh. Many of the models aren't entirely drop-safe either.
The "answer" here is that the Rohrbaugh is the smallest 9x19mm the market, in terms of overall size.
In fact, with current gun design, this pistol is probably about as small as a functional 9mm CAN be, as the gun itself was essentially designed from the ground up around the cartridge.
The Kel-Tec PF-9 is only a *little* bigger, but it also costs a LOT less (around $300 for the Kel Tec vs over $1000 for the Rohrbaugh). The Kel-Tec also has a higher capacity and higher visibility sights.
So for many this may be a better choice.
quote:I have a S&W 38 Airweight revolver now, and not convinced it's a bad way to go, it's certainly easy to carry, but kicks like a mule and not very accurate from more than 15 feet (at least for me)
On small 9mms vs .38 specials. Guess what. . .the small 9mms *ALSO* kick like mules and aren't all that easy to shoot accurately. None of these super small guns are conducive to good accuracy in real world shooting.
Mix a light weight gun with high recoil, abbreviated (or non-existent) sights, and a double-action trigger, and you're going to find it hard to get tight groups on paper.
Still, accuracy is overrated here anyway. You may have a hard time hitting anything past 15 feet, but realistically, you're probably never going to be shooting it past 15 feet.
If you have to use it, you're not going to aim it, you're going to POINT it at an attacker who is probably standing quite close, possibly even contact distance.
For this reason, the original Rohrbaugh pistol didn't even HAVE sights. Sights just increase the likelihood of the gun snagging, and increase the cost. For largely the same reason, most of these pocket guns have small hard to read sights, including the snubnose revolvers.
Personally, I find it a lot easier to shoot a snubnose airweight single-action accurately than any comparable small automatic. Its pretty amazing how well a gun like that CAN group if you aim carefully and concentrate on fundamentals.
I've tried the experiment, and I've been able to put five shots in about a 4" group at 50 feet on a standard bullseye target one-handed, single action, taking extreme care. Not spectacular (and I've heard of much better), but certainly adequate for any "real world" purpose you'd likely use the gun for.
If you can't hit anything with your snubnose, I suggest that a few hours at the range and few boxes of practice ammo would not only be greatly helpful, but would probably cost a lot less than a new gun.
Just squeeze carefully and keep the sights aligned on target. Once you can keep all your shots on an ordinary 8.5x11" sheet of paper at 7 yards, you're shooting as well as you'd probably ever realistically need to.
A set of new grips might help with recoil (though they might alter concealability).0 -
Thanks to everyone who replied. Good info.
thanks, Tom0 -
i have several pocket carry for 9mm try kahr pm9.
i got rid of my s&w airweight, bought 2 ruger lcr, best easy carry i ever had, much less recoil, smooth trigger pull.
pat0 -
I really like the LCP, with a little practice it seems fine at 25-30 ft. Meaning a paper plate at that distance.
Light, fits anywhere. Long trigger pull though as there is no external safety. That takes some getting used to, may be more mental though, hadn't much Glock usage so the lack of a hammer and safety are different.0
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