berdan vs boxer priming
I just got 4000 berdan 223 cases, paid 2 cents apiece. I know they are a one shot deal but for 2 cents apiece...what the heck. Now for my question...the cases weight 110 grs vs my normal 223 Rem case that weight 85-90 grs. Anyone know where I can get reloading data for berdan primed cases? Currently using x-terminator and 2015 powders in my 223 with 55 grain bullets. All help appreciated.
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Is this primed brass (or is it even brass at all--Steel cases?)? I have to ask where you managed to locate 4000 berdan small rifle primers. 0 -
How are you going to deprime them? 0 -
The fact that the cases are Berdan primers is not the driving factor, that you have changed a component of what was an otherwise "proven, SAFE" CASE, POWDER, PRIMER, BULLET COMBINATION IS. Use a "proven" load recipe (YOUR OWN OR ONE FROM A RELOADING BOOK), but reduce the powder charge by 10% and work your way back up.
You should be having good success with the Ramshot, I'd stick with that[:)]0 -
Well to be clear, it is *possible* to de-prime and reload Berdan cases.
There are a few ways to deprime them. There is a hydraulic method (which is messy) that uses water under pressure to force out the old primers.
There are some (hard to find) tools that can do this. See this link:
http://davecushman.net/berdandecap.html
Also, there is a trick where you can use a specially designed tool with a bent sharp point to pierce then pry out the spent primers. Supposedly this can be done pretty fast once you have the right tool and get accustomed to using it.
In the case (heh) of .223 brass, it may not be worth the effort to try and reload Berdan cases, but it certainly could be if you have an unusual caliber or a stock or rare cases.
As to obtaining the primers, Graf's at least USED to sell these. . .though I don't know if they still do or (particularly in today's market) have any in stock.
Still, you figure if *ANY* primers are available now, it should be these!0 -
Sorry I wasn't clear, the case is brass and the primer is unfired. The bullet was pulled and the powder dumped. I neck size and put powder in and a bullet, pull the trigger and it goes bang. I don't plan to reload, not at 2 cents a shot investment for the case and primer. I will try the 10% reduction in the load and work up. 0 -
5mmgunguy,
I got the same thing with some 8mm Berdan primed ammo. I worked up from the bottom load just like I usually do. I did notice that the Berdan priming seemed to allow me to run pressures higher. I was getting the velocity I expected about 3/4 the way up on the load work up. Primers showed flattening and case head marks/streaking started showing at max load. I was getting 2675 fps out of Speer 200 gr. bullets. That was in summer though, don't know how it would have worked in winter.
Overall, I had to say I liked the performance of the Berdan primed cases. I just wish I was set up to reload for them and had access to the primers. I have a bunch of M75 brass that I'm saving just in case I ever come across doing it some day.0 -
As previously mentioned, Berdan primed cases can be reloaded, albeit with a bit more work. The Berdan system produces a slightly more uniform burn rate, due to the cases having two or three flash holes. To figure out which Berdan primer to buy, you will usually have to measure the primer pocket (they are sold by size, and the same caliber cartridge may use different diameter primers, depending on manufacturer). Berdan primers are usually more expensive, since they are imported.
Ironically, Boxer primers were invented in Europe, while Berdan was an American.0 -
quote:Originally posted by 5mmgunguy
I just got 4000 berdan 223 cases, paid 2 cents apiece. I know they are a one shot deal but for 2 cents apiece...what the heck. Now for my question...the cases weight 110 grs vs my normal 223 Rem case that weight 85-90 grs. Anyone know where I can get reloading data for berdan primed cases? Currently using x-terminator and 2015 powders in my 223 with 55 grain bullets. All help appreciated.
Are you refering to primed berdan cases vs. primed, unfired boxer cases? (Ref: item in blue above?) If not, prime a boxer case, and re-weigh. If close, you're good to go, following correct load workup procedures listed in prior post.
If the primed case weight is still different, then you have thicker webs and casewalls smaller case volume, and may encounter pressure problems/failures at the starting loads published in the manuals.
You may wish to check volume and see just exactly what you have to work with. Good luck! Joe
EDIT:
Forgot to add..see Sandwarrior's post. What he has experienced are textbook symptoms of working with smaller case capacity. Best again, Joe0 -
++++givette,
just saved me a similar response. If cases are really that different in weight, then berdan/boxer isn't your number one concern. Case capacity is.0 -
Givvette,
Thanks for reminding me. I go back and read a post I wrote then have to realize I left off the last part. I ended up reducing those loads 1.1 gr. under max. and that left the load producing about 2617 fps and loading and extracting normally. The max load was a bit stiff to extract. Accuracy also increased from about 1MOA to about .6MOA. That over almost 100 rounds.
As noted you'll find a lot of variation in cases from maker to maker and from civilian to military.
Also, in my first post I noted that I didn't comment on powder. My choice for the .223/5.56 is AA2015 first for accuracy and H4895 for all else. The H4895 is very accurate as well.0 -
What I used to do is take an eyedropper and count the number of water drops to fill each type of case, then compare the two.
For giggles, each drop is approximately .05 ml if I remember correctly.0 -
All good info above. When you see an accuracy load co-listed as the maximum load, it usually means the reloading manual is working with powders at hand, and don't have the factory (proprietary) powder to work with.
If the published accuracy load is considerably less than published maximum for a bullet type, weight, etc. I start with that. I may adjust up or down 1/10gr to see if it "sweetens" the groups in my particular rifle. This is with boxer-type brass.
Don't get me wrong..working with unknown volume is risky. The starting load sometimes may be too hot. If so, a powder change is warranted, and when a powder is found that doesn't show pressure signs at the lowest recommended throw-weight, that's the powder that should be used as a workup. Accuracy takes a back seat to pressure.
Further caution: some powders are known to spike pressures moreso than others. Just some ramblings. Anyway, good luck again! Joe0
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