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Winchester model 1897 riot gun

marcus396
I recently purchased a beautiful 1897 12 ga. riot gun. matching receiver and bbl # E 546xxx mfg 1913. winchester proof marks top of bbl and receiver, solid frame short (20.in) bbl with bead, imp cyl. 18 ring forearm, nice wood, some blueing loss, no major pittiing, excellent wood, butt plate jostam mfg 09 chicago ill, anti flinch recoil pad, patent oct 12 1915, magazine not notched as if it was a trench gun, no other markings , cannot find any info on earlier riot guns and assume that this was a police/prison issue. Does this seem original ( w/o) pics and value ( approx 70-80% condition) no slings swivels and end of magazine tube is flat. compared to my 1919 model 97, this action is seems tighter and better overall condition. will try to post pics based on responsed. thanks, marc

my blue book 08 had end year 1911 512632 end year 1912 544313 and end year 1913 575213.

correction : it is marked cyl, not imp. sorry, i know recoil pad is not original, but overall, could this be correct configuration for 1913, i paid 400.00 at auction and it was highest 97. my value book does not have an indication for riot and only reference is to military trench/ riot gun and serial # started at 902117 yr 1937 with riot gun listed at 1944 ( 967371) and 1949 (993750) commercial. i am confused on when earliest riot guns 1897 were made and approx value.

pics added
http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr19/marcus396/012.jpg
http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr19/marcus396/014.jpg
http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr19/marcus396/013.jpg
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Comments

7 comments

Date Votes
  • Bert H.
    Hello Marc,

    Several things do not appear correct;

    First, serial number 546000 was manufactured in the very early part of the year 1912 versus 1913 (serial 544663 was the last Model 1897 made in 1911).

    A true Model 1897 Riot Gun will have a "CYL" marked barrel. Winchester only offered and made "FULL", "MOD", and "CYL" choked barrels for the Model 1897, never an "IMP CYL".

    The Jostam recoil pad is a several years newer than the gun, which tells me that it was installed after the fact.

    So, and in summary, I believe that you have a non-factory original gun.
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  • Bert H.
    Hello Marc,

    The Blue Book contains a lot of inaccurate information concerning Winchester firearms, and is especially incorrect as it relates to DOMs based on serial numbers.

    Winchester introduced the "Riot Gun" variant of the Model 1897 in the year 1898. Prior to that time, a number of Model 1893 Riot Guns were made. Initially, Winchester sold them as Police and Prison guns, then when WW I broke out, they sold a bunch of them to the military (U.S. Army).

    The fact that your gun has been altered from factory original configuration significantly reduces its collectability (value). There is no possible way to put an accurate value (price) on an altered Winchester. My best answer to you, is that it is worth exactly what you paid for it.

    Lastly, you really need a better set of reference books. Joe Poyer wrote an outstanding reference book that covers all of the various Winchester Riot & Trench Guns.
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  • Bert H.
    Hello Marc,

    The gun in the picture is not a "solid frame" gun. Additionally, the butt stock does not appear to be an original Winchester piece (the shape of the pistol grip is entirely wrong), or someone has altered it.
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  • givette
    Here's your pics. Click on "reply with quote" to see what I added to your code-string to allow them to appear on this forum in visual form. The items I added are the bracketed [ ] items at the beginning and the end of each code-string. Best, Joe

    012.jpg

    014.jpg

    013.jpg
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  • marcus396
    thanks Joe , i really appreciate it. good luck
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  • Gene Pool
    I have a Winchester 97 riot gun with S/N 442XXX. It has a 20" (I think-I have never measured it) barrel marked CYL, and the gun will rate 99%+ original.

    I did gunshows for almost 20 years as a dealer--between 35 and 45 shows per year. This is by far the best specimine I ever put my eyes on. Those guns were utility guns for police departments and prisons. They were virtually all used up.

    I estimate mine to be worth $1200, but I would not think of selling it at any price. They are too rare to come by in that condition.

    Gene Pool
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  • Bert H.
    quote:Originally posted by Gene Pool
    I have a Winchester 97 riot gun with S/N 442XXX. It has a 20" (I think-I have never measured it) barrel marked CYL, and the gun will rate 99%+ original.

    I did gunshows for almost 20 years as a dealer--between 35 and 45 shows per year. This is by far the best specimine I ever put my eyes on. Those guns were utility guns for police departments and prisons. They were virtually all used up.

    I estimate mine to be worth $1200, but I would not think of selling it at any price. They are too rare to come by in that condition.

    Gene Pool


    Hello Gene,

    In the future, please start a new topic vice adding to an existing topic string. The primary reason for doing so is that we lock all topic strings at the (10) reply mark.

    OK, based on the partial serial number you posted, your Model 1897 Riot Gun was manufactured in the early part of the year 1909. In the condition you describe, it could easily hit the $2,000+ mark.

    The barrel should be 20-inchs.
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