AT&F Regs. on replacing thumbhole stocks!
Please, only answer if you are positive of answer or give me specific place to go for my answer.
I have a number of AK or AK variants I purchased from approx. 1995 until probably 1997 at latest.
I have Norinco rifles from various importers and Mitchell Yugo's in several configurations. ALL, have thumb-hole stocks, all have threaded barrels, some have flash hiders and others not. No bayonet lugs nor any sign they were ground off. Some have a pin that would lock in a flash hider, some no pins, and some with a pin that locks the threaded flash hider in place permanently. A Norinco RPK has what I call a barrel nut on the threaded barrel but no pin to keep it tight in place.
It appears to me that importers did various things to get the guns modified to meet 1994 requirements, but they all did something different.
AT&F site of course states 1994 ban has expired. QUESTION: Can I legally or not put on the original wood stock and pistol grip? Remember, these are rifles arriving in US from 1989 until about 1995 perhaps.
Thank you to those with serious knowledge about this matter!
Stevejavascript:insertsmilie('[?]')
I have a number of AK or AK variants I purchased from approx. 1995 until probably 1997 at latest.
I have Norinco rifles from various importers and Mitchell Yugo's in several configurations. ALL, have thumb-hole stocks, all have threaded barrels, some have flash hiders and others not. No bayonet lugs nor any sign they were ground off. Some have a pin that would lock in a flash hider, some no pins, and some with a pin that locks the threaded flash hider in place permanently. A Norinco RPK has what I call a barrel nut on the threaded barrel but no pin to keep it tight in place.
It appears to me that importers did various things to get the guns modified to meet 1994 requirements, but they all did something different.
AT&F site of course states 1994 ban has expired. QUESTION: Can I legally or not put on the original wood stock and pistol grip? Remember, these are rifles arriving in US from 1989 until about 1995 perhaps.
Thank you to those with serious knowledge about this matter!
Stevejavascript:insertsmilie('[?]')
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The 1994 AWB ban had NOTHING to do with imported firearms. The 1994 AWB was on domestic made firearms.
ANY firearm imported after 1989 has to meet the "sporting" requirement and is still 100% in effect. If you have a gun that was imported after it has to meet the "sporting" requirement still. Now if you add enough parts to make your gun 922r compliant it is no longer considered an import.
If you do a search for 922r compliance you will end up with a pile of sites with info.0 -
If you replace the thumbhole stock be sure the replacements parts are made in the U.S.. Keep the documentation noting U.S. origin of all replacement parts with the rifle. 0 -
No, you cannot legally (under federal law 922r) add any more "evil features" such as pistol grips or bayonet lugs to your imported firearms unless you add enough US made parts to your weapon so that it has no more than 10 foreign parts in it. Only certain parts may be considered and different guns have different parts counts. Yes, it is confusing. The main thing is that the expiration of the Assault Weapon Ban of 1994 doesn't affect the other laws such as 922r restricting the alteration of "Foreign" guns by adding evil features. Imported guns not considered suitable for sporting use(AK's, SKS's and many others may only have one evil feature, usually a high capacity magazine, if the foreign parts count exceeds 10. To legally add a high cap mag to an SKS requires the removal of the bayonet, and bayonet lug, so that it will still have only 1 evil feature. Of course, you could add enough US parts to keep the Foreign parts count to 10 or less and have more evil features present. Pre-ban weapons that were imported before the law became effective may may have several evil features if they were on the weapon when it was imported. The owner must be able to prove that it is a pre-ban weapon, however. It is not a crime to possess a rifle that was illegally altered by someone else before you owned it, it is a crime to perform the illegal alteration. The catch 22 is that it can be confiscated.
Some good info is here:
http://www.922r.com/0 -
quote:Originally posted by Nwcid
The 1994 AWB ban had NOTHING to do with imported firearms. The 1994 AWB was on domestic made firearms.
ANY firearm imported after 1989 has to meet the "sporting" requirement and is still 100% in effect. If you have a gun that was imported after it has to meet the "sporting" requirement still. Now if you add enough parts to make your gun 922r compliant it is no longer considered an import.
If you do a search for 922r compliance you will end up with a pile of sites with info.
This is what I am looking for. However, when I look at the Mitchell rifles on the auction side, closed auctions, I have seen over a period of time a number of these that have wood and you name it with serial numbers thousands higher than mine. And, by the way, Google cannot find me US parts for these rifles imported by Mitchell. Not same as the Century. Particularly in 7.62x51. I have observed the same with a few older Norinco rifles in 7.62x39. Which may have US parts but seller didn't advise.
Still and all, why were guns sold with all the differences in what is termed "Sporting" and each importer doing different changes earlier on to make it meet specs.? It looks to me the only thing they did in common was to mount a thumb-hole stock. I haven't found a dealer yet who can explain it to themselves even. On recent guns, they are the same, but not apparently in shall I say pre-1989 guns caught in customs. I'm still confused. Yes, there are a pile of sites I am aware. But, do they answer my and others questions here? No, not really. On guns on the shelves today they do.
Steve0 -
Many people have illegally altered their "imported" thumbhole stocked AK's by adding pistol grips, or other evil features, without adding the proper number of US parts and later sold them to unsuspecting buyers. These guns are subject to confiscation if detected, and the person who did the illegal alterations could be charged with a felony. Check with TAPCO for US compliance parts, look at gun shows and on the internet. They aren't that hard to find or install. The new guns being sold today with lots of evil features usually have US made receivers and at least 10 or fewer foreign parts. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by TWalker
No, you cannot legally (under federal law 922r) add any more "evil features" such as pistol grips or bayonet lugs to your imported firearms unless you add enough US made parts to your weapon so that it has no more than 10 foreign parts in it. Only certain parts may be considered and different guns have different parts counts. Yes, it is confusing. The main thing is that the expiration of the Assault Weapon Ban of 1994 doesn't affect the other laws such as 922r restricting the alteration of "Foreign" guns by adding evil features. Imported guns not considered suitable for sporting use(AK's, SKS's and many others may only have one evil feature, usually a high capacity magazine, if the foreign parts count exceeds 10. To legally add a high cap mag to an SKS requires the removal of the bayonet, and bayonet lug, so that it will still have only 1 evil feature. Of course, you could add enough US parts to keep the Foreign parts count to 10 or less and have more evil features present. Pre-ban weapons that were imported before the law became effective may may have several evil features if they were on the weapon when it was imported. The owner must be able to prove that it is a pre-ban weapon, however. It is not a crime to possess a rifle that was illegally altered by someone else before you owned it, it is a crime to perform the illegal alteration. The catch 22 is that it can be confiscated.
Some good info is here:
http://www.922r.com/
Good for you, this is the detailed expert type of answer I needed. Example: My specifically banned Mitchell Yugo's have a certificate stating they are part of a lot of pre-ban 1989 rifles held in customs for 4 1/2 years. And that they were modified to meet the new requirements. Other than the plastic thumb-hole stock though, they vary. Flash hider versus no flash hider. No bayonet lugs as these are 308 sniper rifles. M77 and RPK. No flah hider retention pin versus one that does have. See why I got confused on the older guns. Every gun I purchased in the early to mid 90's varied. No I do not want or need a bayonet lug as some seem to think. My question for those who really may know was concerning stock and pistol grip only.
Thank you for an answer that is understandable!
Steve0 -
Mitchell got caught with about 10,000 rifles stuck in the '89 Bush ban and Zastava, the folks who produced the Yugoslavian AKs for both Mitchell and American Arms, was not about to take them back and refund Don Mitchell's money. Mitchell then developed the idea of a thumbhole stock as a means of getting the rifles released from customs. In addition to the thumbhole stock they cut off the bayonet lugs, removed the night sights, replaced the spring retainer for the flash hider with a pin so that the flash hider could not be removed, and etched the designation M-90 onto the receivers after blocking out AK-47. This was just enough to allow the rifles out of US Customs. I doubt that you'll find any US made compliance parts for a 7.62X51 rifle so that one is probably a dead end. For about $75-$100 Mitchell did offer the original parts (the ones that they removed) for purchase for "historic purposes" or as items for "study". Use of the military stock and pistol grip on any Mitchell marked M90 is prohibited without the addition of the proper number of US made parts.
This is a pre ban American Arms Yugoslavian AK with the bayonet lug, night sights and all of the other nasty features:
[img][/img]
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The common part that Century Arms switches on their Romanian made (receivered) Sar and Wasr rifles are:
Fire Control Group (Trigger, Disconnector, and Hammer)
Pistol Grip
Gas Piston
They switch these out for US made parts.
If you have a removable muzzle attachment, that also needs to be a US part.
Ohio Rapid Fire was most recently selling newly built 7.62x51 Mitchel-esque AK rifles. You may want to give them a call to see what US parts they are using in them.
I would bet they are are getting their US made wood stock sets from Ironwood Designs.0 -
Here's the list of "evil parts" in an AK, replace at least 6 of 'em with US made stuff -
1. Barrel
2. Receiver
3. Front and Rear Trunions (Applies to stamped receivers only)
4. Bolt Carrier
5. Bolt
6. Gas Piston
7. Buttstock
8. Pistol Grip
9. Upper and Lower Handguards (Both count as 1 part)
10. Muzzle Device
11. Hammer
12. Trigger
13. Disconnector
14. Magazine Body
15. Magazine Follower
16. Magazine Floorplate0 -
quote:Originally posted by mark christian
Mitchell got caught with about 10,000 rifles stuck in the '89 Bush ban and Zastava, the folks who produced the Yugoslavian AKs for both Mitchell and American Arms, was not about to take them back and refund Don Mitchell's money. Mitchell then developed the idea of a thumbhole stock as a means of getting the rifles released from customs. In addition to the thumbhole stock they cut off the bayonet lugs, removed the night sights, replaced the spring retainer for the flash hider with a pin so that the flash hider could not be removed, and etched the designation M-90 onto the receivers after blocking out AK-47. This was just enough to allow the rifles out of US Customs. I doubt that you'll find any US made compliance parts for a 7.62X51 rifle so that one is probably a dead end. For about $75-$100 Mitchell did offer the original parts (the ones that they removed) for purchase for "historic purposes" or as items for "study". Use of the military stock and pistol grip on any Mitchell marked M90 is prohibited without the addition of the proper number of US made parts.
This is a pre ban American Arms Yugoslavian AK with the bayonet lug, night sights and all of the other nasty features:
[img][/img]
Excellent information. Very consise info. Thankk You, Steve0
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