Auction disclosure??
quote:US Army Colt 1911 .45ACP Government Model Ser#3612** (1918). Pistol includes 93% of its original finish. Grips are complete and have NO cracks or chips. Bore is bright and shinny.This Colt includes 1 magazine and leather soft case. This pistol is 100% functional and complete. This is a very clean and looks untouched Colt 1911 .45 made in 1918 it has 2 small file marks (seen in photo)in front of the grip (this gun has seen action) My FFL dealer appraised this gun at over $2000.00 in value (condition is everything on these old original 1911)This one is in excellent overall condition! "NO RESERVE" Goodluck MUST SHIP TO A FFL DEALER ONLY $25.00 WITH INSURANCE INCLUDED LOWER 48 ONLY ALL OTHER E-MAIL FOR QUOTE
I bought this colt yesterday on the auction side.
the pics were dark and the gun was not 100% original (front and rear sights were replaced)but from the description I thought it was a well cared for (93%) classic.
today I looked at the pics on my computer at work and could see alot more (still dark but I enlarged them)
the gun Is stamped AA wich indicates an arsenal rebuild. that usually included refinish as well. so, likely none of it is original.
shouldn't the seller have mentioned that in the description?
I've never backed out on a purchase but I just don't think this was accurately described and the rebuild takes away most of the collector value.
what do you think?
thanks
tom
I bought this colt yesterday on the auction side.
the pics were dark and the gun was not 100% original (front and rear sights were replaced)but from the description I thought it was a well cared for (93%) classic.
today I looked at the pics on my computer at work and could see alot more (still dark but I enlarged them)
the gun Is stamped AA wich indicates an arsenal rebuild. that usually included refinish as well. so, likely none of it is original.
shouldn't the seller have mentioned that in the description?
I've never backed out on a purchase but I just don't think this was accurately described and the rebuild takes away most of the collector value.
what do you think?
thanks
tom
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The description went OK at "93% finish" and "100% functional"; but went over-the-line (IMO) with "untouched" if it is an arsenal rework. Do you get an "inspection period" after receipt? Is what you bid worth more than its "value"? I bought a piece at auction here that had not-so-good-pictures and it turned out to not be as good as descibed, but I still had not paid too much. I chalked mine up to a learning experience; not asking enough questions and depending on poor quality photos. 0 -
original finish would be sort of a matt black NOT [xx(]parkerized. AA would be a rebuild and sometimes this would include a refinish and some times not, also some times grips were worn and replaced original grips would have been wood with a star uncheckered around both grip screws. Barrel would have HP on the top chamber area AA may have just replaced one or more small parts but could have replaced the barrel [xx(] as WWI ammo would pit the inside of barrel if not cleaned after shooting.Pictures would be a great help
EDIT as it has been relisted I assume you got your money back . IT is nowhere near a $2000.00 pistol . refinished and most likely rebarreled Looks like fixed high sights like some pistols were modified for military pistol teams . Best thing about this one are the grips if they are real and not repros. The rest of the gun is $750.00 + or -0 -
To much "not right." IF you have the option to send it back, I would. Although I NEVER HAVE, I would have to on that description....nambu 0 -
While an arsenal stamp could mean a rebuild, it sometimes only means that a gun was inspected at an arsenal.
If the sights have been changed, most of the rest is not that important; it's a "shooter", not a "collector".
Neal0 -
quote:Originally posted by tplumeri
quote:US Army Colt 1911 .45ACP Government Model Ser#3612** (1918). Pistol includes 93% of its original finish. Grips are complete and have NO cracks or chips. Bore is bright and shiney.This Colt includes 1 magazine and leather soft case. This pistol is 100% functional and complete. This is a very clean and looks untouched Colt 1911 .45 made in 1918 it has 2 small file marks (seen in photo)in front of the grip (this gun has seen action) My FFL dealer appraised this gun at over $2000.00 in value (condition is everything on these old original 1911)This one is in excellent overall condition! "NO RESERVE" Goodluck MUST SHIP TO A FFL DEALER ONLY $25.00 WITH INSURANCE INCLUDED LOWER 48 ONLY ALL OTHER E-MAIL FOR QUOTE
I bought this colt yesterday on the auction side.
the pics were dark and the gun was not 100% original (front and rear sights were replaced)but from the description I thought it was a well cared for (93%) classic.
today I looked at the pics on my computer at work and could see alot more (still dark but I enlarged them)
the gun Is stamped AA wich indicates an arsenal rebuild. that usually included refinish as well. so, likely none of it is original.
shouldn't the seller have mentioned that in the description?
I've never backed out on a purchase but I just don't think this was accurately described and the rebuild takes away most of the collector value.
what do you think?
thanks
tom
I think the phrase "looks untouched" indicates it may or may not be untouched, so I don't see that as an explicit misrepresentation. You already knew the gun was not original by looking at the sights so I don't think there is an expectation the gun has value as a collectible but merely a shooter. Asserting the gun retains 93% of its original finish is, I think, a misrepresentation.
If it can be demonstrated that the gun has been refinished I think you can back out of the deal, but I think you should try to do so amicably - you were after all buying a gun that, by virtue of its sight replacement, was not really in collectible condition and knew it. I don't know enough about these guns to give an answer, but is the difference between original finish and rearsenal easily noticed?
Errors I think on both sides.0 -
My FFL dealer appraised this gun at over $2000.00 in value (condition is everything on these old original 1911)
I think this says it all. Is is not original as this statement is the implication that is made.0 -
quote:Originally posted by rsnyder55
My FFL dealer appraised this gun at over $2000.00 in value (condition is everything on these old original 1911)
I think this says it all. Is is not original as this statement is the implication that is made.
Allow me to weasel word this a bit.
OK, his FFL dealer appraised the gun at $2K. Maybe his FFL dealer sells new guns and doesn't know diddly about 1911s. Even if he's correct, an original 1911 could be worth $4K - this one's stepped on and it's only worth half that.
And what does that appraisal mean - that the FFL would put it in his shop for $2K? I've seen a (new issue, used) Smith Model 21 sitting in a dealer's window for about 2 years with a $900.00 price tag on it. It sure isn't worth $900.00.
And the phrase "in value" means what? Maybe it means the FFL will give him $2K in store trade/credit, which of course costs the FFL a good deal less than $2K.
And the tag line "condition is everything ....) is mostly true, but I see it as a general statement. And it's not even 100% true. Which would you rather have - Sgt York's terribly finished 1911 or some obscure WWI Pvt's like new 1911?
Unfortunately I think we have to read sale adverts critically and with an eye toward being taken advantage of.0 -
I appreciate all the inpu.
I don't think there was intent to defraud, perhaps seller and gunsmith have never seen one before.
originall I asked seller for more pictures, but he said he was out of town and wouldn't be back until after the auction closed.
I noemally won't even bid on something like this, w/o extra pics, but seller seemed nice enough.....
BTW i always ask for more pics to see if the seller actually has the gun in his posession.
I told the seller it's partly my fault for bidding w/o the extra pics, but the gun is not what he implied it was.
I offered to pay the listing fees. haven't heard back yet.
thanks
tom0 -
quote:Originally posted by tplumeri
I appreciate all the inpu.
I don't think there was intent to defraud, perhaps seller and gunsmith have never seen one before.
originall I asked seller for more pictures, but he said he was out of town and wouldn't be back until after the auction closed.
I noemally won't even bid on something like this, w/o extra pics, but seller seemed nice enough.....
BTW i always ask for more pics to see if the seller actually has the gun in his posession.
I told the seller it's partly my fault for bidding w/o the extra pics, but the gun is not what he implied it was.
I offered to pay the listing fees. haven't heard back yet.
thanks
tom
Hi Tom,
The above says it all; you are reasonable and fair, he should refund and re-list.0 -
It has been relisted:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=128032468
Looks like it was park'ed when went through the arsenal. Also missing the lanyard ring.0
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