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FFL Transfers

Blitz-Krieger
If I sell a gun, then have it shipped off to the buyers ffl, and for some reason, needs to be shipped back to me, because the buyer can't receive, Does it need to be transfered back to a local FFL and will it have to be 'transfered' back to me, including all the paperwork?

thanks
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Comments

10 comments

Date Votes
  • nmyers
    Since the original transfer (from you to the FFL) will be legal, a return (the FFL to you) will also be considered legal.

    Just make sure you retain your documentation.

    And, be sure that the buyer's FFL understands that you are a nonlicensee.

    Neal
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  • Spider7115
    The buyer's FFL will need to ship it back to your FFL as he can't ship it directly to you. Your FFL will then transfer it back to you after you complete a 4473 and get a NICS check.
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  • Hawkshaw
    With all due respect nmeyers
    I disagree. Once the receiving FFL has taken posession of the firearm from Blitzkreiger, that transfer is complete. If the buyer can't comply with all of the requirement at the new location, and that FFL, or buyer wants to return it to the seller, (I assume across state lines), the gun must be shipped to a FFL in the original location, where the seller will have to comply with the regulations in the original location, including a new 4473 and background check. The logic being that the seller's situation could have changed in the interim, such that he may now be prohibited from owning any gun. That is why at least in my state, a gun that is consigned for sale with a FFL dealer, a 4473, and background check must be completed before the dealer can return the consigned gun to it's owner. THX HAWKSHAW
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  • abcguns2
    Contact the alphabet police (ATF) on this ??????
    Thanks !
    d.a.stearns .........a.k.a....SKEEZIX
    Gunsmith / LEO
    Athens , Tn












    www.allamericangunshop.com
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  • Blitz-Krieger
    okay, I'll see what I can find out from atf.

    Similar situation:

    If I ship a gun to somebody to do work on it. Can it only be to someone with an FFL? And can it be shipped directly back to me, or does it again have to go through a local ffl?

    thanks for any advice...I'm sure atf would be the best source for accurate info, but I don't know when I will have time to try to search their site or contact them. I figured there are people here that have already been through these types of situations.

    I have just recently gotten involved in guns, and started aquiring quite a few, and figure I have a more detailed knowledge of the laws so I don't get myself locked up for something stupid.

    thanks again
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  • Spider7115
    quote:Originally posted by Blitz-Krieger
    okay, I'll see what I can find out from atf.

    Similar situation:

    If I ship a gun to somebody to do work on it. Can it only be to someone with an FFL? And can it be shipped directly back to me, or does it again have to go through a local ffl?

    thanks for any advice...I'm sure atf would be the best source for accurate info, but I don't know when I will have time to try to search their site or contact them. I figured there are people here that have already been through these types of situations.

    I have just recently gotten involved in guns, and started aquiring quite a few, and figure I have a more detailed knowledge of the laws so I don't get myself locked up for something stupid.

    thanks again



    You can only ship a modern firearm to an FFL holder but he can ship it back directly to you since ownership did not change. The exception may be in-state shipment of a long gun depending on your state laws.
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  • 11b6r
    Section 922. Unlawful acts

    (a) It shall be unlawful -
    (1) for any person -
    (A) except a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or
    licensed dealer, to engage in the business of importing,
    manufacturing, or dealing in firearms, or in the course of such
    business to ship, transport, or receive any firearm in
    interstate or foreign commerce; or
    (B) except a licensed importer or licensed manufacturer, to
    engage in the business of importing or manufacturing
    ammunition, or in the course of such business, to ship,
    transport, or receive any ammunition in interstate or foreign
    commerce;

    (2) for any importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector
    licensed under the provisions of this chapter to ship or
    transport in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm to any
    person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer,
    licensed dealer, or licensed collector, except that -
    (A) this paragraph and subsection (b)(3) shall not be held to
    preclude a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed
    dealer, or licensed collector from returning a firearm or
    replacement firearm of the same kind and type to a person from
    whom it was received; and this paragraph shall not be held to
    preclude an individual from mailing a firearm owned in
    compliance with Federal, State, and local law to a licensed
    importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed
    collector;
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  • nmyers
    Thank you, 11b6r.

    To answer B-K's other questions:

    I. GUNSMITHS
    (I1) Is a license needed to engage
    in the business of engraving, customizing,
    refinishing or repairing
    firearms?
    Yes. A person conducting such activities
    as a business is considered to
    be a gunsmith within the definition of
    a dealer. See Item 16, "Federal Excise
    Tax" in the General Information
    section of this publication.
    [27 CFR 478.11]

    (I3) Is an ATF Form 4473 required
    when a gunsmith returns a repaired
    firearm?
    No, provided the firearm is returned
    to the person from whom it was received.
    [27 CFR 478.124(a)]

    Neal
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  • Mooseyard
    Neal, the FAQ that you posted pertains to repairs or work done on the gun. The ATF considers transfers for reasons of repair different than transfers for reason of sale. If someone brings in a gun for me to fix, I can fix it and return it to them. If they bring in the same gun for me to sell on consignment, and the next day come back to pick it up, they will need to do a 4473. Seeing as how this gun was shipped to an FFL for the purpose of being sold, I would think that it would need to be returned to an FFL in the sellers state, where he would need to do a 4473. I sure wouldn't do it any differently, I value my license.
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  • 11b6r
    Moose- you put your finger on the difference- When you take a gun ON CONSIGNMENT- it has been transferred. But when a FFL is receiving FOR THE PURPOSE OF A TRANSFER, and transfer does NOT occur (recipient won't pass NCIC check, gun damaged in shipping, recipient unhappy with condition, etc), 922 permits return to the original owner ONLY.
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