Can buyer RETURN a rifle to seller in California?
I am new to GunBroker.com and firearms auctions. I live in California and plan to sell many of my long guns at GunBroker.com.
If a dissatisfied buyer wishes to return the gun I sold, I assume that it must be shipped to an FFL here in California and not directly back to me. Then, can my receiving FFL simply return the gun to me, or must I fill out forms and pay fees to the state, applying to "buy" my gun back?
If I am not willing to go through that, should I state in my auction that all sales are final and I cannot accept customer returns? Is that an unreasonable condition to place on an auction?
Thanks for your help.
If a dissatisfied buyer wishes to return the gun I sold, I assume that it must be shipped to an FFL here in California and not directly back to me. Then, can my receiving FFL simply return the gun to me, or must I fill out forms and pay fees to the state, applying to "buy" my gun back?
If I am not willing to go through that, should I state in my auction that all sales are final and I cannot accept customer returns? Is that an unreasonable condition to place on an auction?
Thanks for your help.
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Yup, once you transfer your gun to your shipping FFL, you no longer own it. If the buyer sends it back, you need to complete a 4473. The same applies to pawn shops which has caused some people to get pretty angry when they aren't approved to redeem their own gun!
It's not unreasonable to state that all sales are final. State also that you are not an FFL. A lot of sellers won't accept guns back due to switched parts.0 -
Why ship it BACK to a FFL? You shipped TO a FFL, if not accepted, Federal law permits it to be returned to you.
Section 922. Unlawful acts
(a) It shall be unlawful -
(1) for any person -
(A) except a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or
licensed dealer, to engage in the business of importing,
manufacturing, or dealing in firearms, or in the course of such
business to ship, transport, or receive any firearm in
interstate or foreign commerce; or
(B) except a licensed importer or licensed manufacturer, to
engage in the business of importing or manufacturing
ammunition, or in the course of such business, to ship,
transport, or receive any ammunition in interstate or foreign
commerce;
(2) for any importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector
licensed under the provisions of this chapter to ship or
transport in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm to any
person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer,
licensed dealer, or licensed collector, except that -
(A) this paragraph and subsection (b)(3) shall not be held to
preclude a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed
dealer, or licensed collector from returning a firearm or
replacement firearm of the same kind and type to a person from
whom it was received; and this paragraph shall not be held to
preclude an individual from mailing a firearm owned in
compliance with Federal, State, and local law to a licensed
importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed
collector;0 -
quote:Originally posted by 11b6r
Why ship it BACK to a FFL? You shipped TO a FFL, if not accepted, Federal law permits it to be returned to you.
Section 922. Unlawful acts
(a) It shall be unlawful -
(1) for any person -
(A) except a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or
licensed dealer, to engage in the business of importing,
manufacturing, or dealing in firearms, or in the course of such
business to ship, transport, or receive any firearm in
interstate or foreign commerce; or
(B) except a licensed importer or licensed manufacturer, to
engage in the business of importing or manufacturing
ammunition, or in the course of such business, to ship,
transport, or receive any ammunition in interstate or foreign
commerce;
(2) for any importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector
licensed under the provisions of this chapter to ship or
transport in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm to any
person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer,
licensed dealer, or licensed collector, except that -
(A) this paragraph and subsection (b)(3) shall not be held to
preclude a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed
dealer, or licensed collector from returning a firearm or
replacement firearm of the same kind and type to a person from
whom it was received; and this paragraph shall not be held to
preclude an individual from mailing a firearm owned in
compliance with Federal, State, and local law to a licensed
importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed
collector;
Regardless of federal law, I bet you'll be hard-pressed to find an FFL dealer who will ship a modern firearm interstate to a non-licensee once it's been booked in, even if it was received from them, as ownership has changed at that point. They would have to book it out again and, in today's anti-gun world, a lot of dealers might feel like they're being set up and will only ship to another FFL.0 -
unless it was sold 'as is', the sale isn't complete until the buyer accepts. the recieving ffl can return it directly to you if refused. 0 -
You could also work an arrangement for your local FFL to just keep the guns on his books, and he can ship to winning bidder(s) - perhaps for a xfer fee. 0 -
We have an FFl and this is Interesting and complicated question. I think mike whiskey is in error. As the gun must be booked within 24 hours the transfer from you to the dealer in the other state has taken place most likely. If so it's dealer to dealer with the CA release being required. If the receiving dealer HASN"T booked the receipt I agree it could be shipped back to you. At least that's how I see it. This assumes you ship without an FFL on your side which is perfectly legal to most states. If an FFl is required on your side , you are screwed and all the transfers will be required 0 -
It would be nice if you would finish filling out your "Profile".
Doug0 -
As a NON FFL I find it interesting that everytime this questions comes up...10 different FFL holders give 10 different interpretations of the rules/Laws...this same lack of uniformity apparently exists in the ATF itself...
A gunshop owner told me about how he was recently given a hard time from an out of state ATF agent in regards to what the agent interpreted as a 'straw" purchase. This owner transferred a gun to another dealer out of state for a woman who ordered a rifle for her husband as a gift. The out of state dealer interpreted this as a straw purchase and tried to get the local gunshop owner in trouble. It took a local ATF Agent to get in touch with the other Agent and explain that is is perfectly legal for someone to purchase a firearm as a gift for someone else. My point is...that even contacting the ATF with this question may not get your the correct answer depending on who you talk too....so I would suggest that you should ALWAYS err on the side of caution.0
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