I asked this once before, but I cannot find the...
post...
How do you properly determine the length of pull for a child or small woman?
Someone here told me how to measure it a while back and I never ended up buying a rifle for my daughter...but this year, she is going to need a hunting rifle and a shotgun for shooting trap. She's only 11, but she's very tall for her age (5'7"). Thank you!
How do you properly determine the length of pull for a child or small woman?
Someone here told me how to measure it a while back and I never ended up buying a rifle for my daughter...but this year, she is going to need a hunting rifle and a shotgun for shooting trap. She's only 11, but she's very tall for her age (5'7"). Thank you!
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LOP is measured from the forward face of the trigger to the end of the butt plate/recoil pad. Measure to the point halfway between the heel (top) and the toe (bottom) of the butt plate/recoil pad.
To short a LOP and you will tend to pull shots to the right. To long and the weaponw will tend to ride upward and outward during recoil, resulting in low left shots.
Finding your LOP: Place the buttstock along your forearm. Slip your trigger finger onto the trigger and the rest of your fingers around the pistol grip or wrist just like you would do if you were shouldering the weapon. Check to see that the face of the butt plate/recoil pad rests against your biceps.
If barely touching the surface of your biceps, it is close to being good for you. Shoulder the weapon and and relax your right arm. Let your elbow drop as low as possible without being uncomfortable. Your elbow should be approximately in the centreline of the side of your body.
If it's too far forward the LOP is too long. If it's too far rearward, the LOP is too short.
Variatons in body build, stocks, shooting style etc., might cause you to lengthne or shorten the butt stock for a fit that is correct for you.0 -
Am I remembering this correctly...is the correct LOP from the curled trigger finger to the bicep with your arm bent at 90 degrees at the elbow??? I'm not sure I understand your post. Thanks. One more thing, would you please delete your duplicate response so it doesn't affect the number of additional responses I can get. Thanks![:)] 0 -
ECC,
I wrote a long explanation on this question also and I can't find it either. But in answer to the question about the process, there is a bunch more to arriving at a correct length-of-pull than just a simple measurement. I know that everyone thinks you can just rest the stock in the crook of your elbow and measure to the crook of your trigger finger but in most cases, this is a wives' tale or internet myth.
Think about the length of her neck, the depth of the pocket where the butt gets placed, the width of her face, height of her cheekbones, etc, etc. Real stockmakers use an expensive tool named a 'Try Stock' which most of us will never need or want to afford. In your situation, you can use shims of cardboard or wood to adjust a shorter stock to a longer dimension or even a slip-on pad if you have one lying around. The trick is to keep the scope from having a collision with her beautiful face. That's where the rule of thumb comes in.
With the shotgun though, I would take her out to the trap range and get one of the more knowledgeable shooters give you hand with the trap stock fit. It's a completely different set of measurements from the rifle. Generally, it's a higher comb to get the head in more upright position and in perfect relationship to the sights. Non-competitive trap has been and can be shot with field guns but the sight picture is completely different from a real target shotgun.
I happen to know a couple of fine stockmakers and one of them writes an internet blog which is where I pirated this explanation from:
"What should my LOP be?
The most common of the old wives' tales concerning LOP is that it can be determined by measuring from the inside of the elbow to the curve of the trigger finger. Utter nonsense.
The next most common error concerns arm length as the criteria for measuring LOP. Just because you may need a 36" sleeve length on your shirts or even if you knuckles drag on the pavement when you walk, do not automatically conclude you need a longer-than-standard LOP.
The critical dimension in judging the correct LOP for an individual is that there should be about one inch to an inch-and-a-quarter of space between the thumb and nose when the gun is mounted, cheeked and ready to fire. This is a measurement that you can't make on yourself, but is one easily made by someone else. This is the one constant -- in a sea of variables that will be the same if you are measuring your son, daughter, wife or shooting buddy. But circumstances alter cases.
The same guy suited up in a down hunting jacket for deer hunting in Idaho, is going to have different LOP requirements than he is for hunting Coues deer on the Arizona desert in shirtsleeves. Tall guys with longer necks will probably need more than a 15" LOP. Guys who could play at tackle for the Chicago Bears, with no visible neck, might be perfectly happy with a 13-3/4" LOP. Reaching a decision with multi-variables to work with involves holding your Philosopher's Stone tightly and reaching the first of many compromises life will require of you.
Most hunters need an inch and sometimes a bit more between their thumb and nose.
How do I change it?
Changing the LOP almost always means adding a pad. Getting the appropriate LOP out of a pad is the primary benefit. Recoil absorption is a secondary benefit.
If you think you need a longer LOP, buy one of these slip-on pads. These are great measuring tools. It adds one-half inch to the LOP -- but you can shim it up with pieces of cardboard until you get to that magic inch-and-a-quarter inch measurement between your nose and thumb. Through trial and error you can find the LOP that works best for you. Then it's time to add a permanent pad.
If you are measuring someone who might need a shorter LOP -- a wife or child, for example -- work backwards. If the distance between nose and thumb measures two inches -- for example -- then probably a net three quarters of an inch needs to come off the butt.
Remember the rule -- Measure twice, cut once."
Best.0 -
Also consider cast off, especially in a trap/skeet gun. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by nononsense
ECC,
I wrote a long explanation on this question also and I can't find it either. But in answer to the question about the process, there is a bunch more to arriving at a correct length-of-pull than just a simple measurement. I know that everyone thinks you can just rest the stock in the crook of your elbow and measure to the crook of your trigger finger but in most cases, this is a wives' tale or internet myth.
Think about the length of her neck, the depth of the pocket where the butt gets placed, the width of her face, height of her cheekbones, etc, etc. Real stockmakers use an expensive tool named a 'Try Stock' which most of us will never need or want to afford. In your situation, you can use shims of cardboard or wood to adjust a shorter stock to a longer dimension or even a slip-on pad if you have one lying around. The trick is to keep the scope from having a collision with her beautiful face. That's where the rule of thumb comes in.
With the shotgun though, I would take her out to the trap range and get one of the more knowledgeable shooters give you hand with the trap stock fit. It's a completely different set of measurements from the rifle. Generally, it's a higher comb to get the head in more upright position and in perfect relationship to the sights. Non-competitive trap has been and can be shot with field guns but the sight picture is completely different from a real target shotgun.
I happen to know a couple of fine stockmakers and one of them writes an internet blog which is where I pirated this explanation from:
"What should my LOP be?
The most common of the old wives' tales concerning LOP is that it can be determined by measuring from the inside of the elbow to the curve of the trigger finger. Utter nonsense.
The next most common error concerns arm length as the criteria for measuring LOP. Just because you may need a 36" sleeve length on your shirts or even if you knuckles drag on the pavement when you walk, do not automatically conclude you need a longer-than-standard LOP.
The critical dimension in judging the correct LOP for an individual is that there should be about one inch to an inch-and-a-quarter of space between the thumb and nose when the gun is mounted, cheeked and ready to fire. This is a measurement that you can't make on yourself, but is one easily made by someone else. This is the one constant -- in a sea of variables that will be the same if you are measuring your son, daughter, wife or shooting buddy. But circumstances alter cases.
The same guy suited up in a down hunting jacket for deer hunting in Idaho, is going to have different LOP requirements than he is for hunting Coues deer on the Arizona desert in shirtsleeves. Tall guys with longer necks will probably need more than a 15" LOP. Guys who could play at tackle for the Chicago Bears, with no visible neck, might be perfectly happy with a 13-3/4" LOP. Reaching a decision with multi-variables to work with involves holding your Philosopher's Stone tightly and reaching the first of many compromises life will require of you.
Most hunters need an inch and sometimes a bit more between their thumb and nose.
How do I change it?
Changing the LOP almost always means adding a pad. Getting the appropriate LOP out of a pad is the primary benefit. Recoil absorption is a secondary benefit.
If you think you need a longer LOP, buy one of these slip-on pads. These are great measuring tools. It adds one-half inch to the LOP -- but you can shim it up with pieces of cardboard until you get to that magic inch-and-a-quarter inch measurement between your nose and thumb. Through trial and error you can find the LOP that works best for you. Then it's time to add a permanent pad.
If you are measuring someone who might need a shorter LOP -- a wife or child, for example -- work backwards. If the distance between nose and thumb measures two inches -- for example -- then probably a net three quarters of an inch needs to come off the butt.
Remember the rule -- Measure twice, cut once."
Best.
Thank you NN! Another question...is that measurement from the nose to the base of your thumb (the first joint) when shouldering the rifle?
Last but not least, I guess what you are saying is that there is no proper way to measure a LOP...you can only get it by using a rifle with a known LOP and add or deduct from that.?.?0 -
ECC,
"...is that measurement from the nose to the base of your thumb (the first joint) when shouldering the rifle?"
Yes. The only way to determine the LOP accurately is with the rifle shouldered in order to take the other variables into account at the same time.
"I guess what you are saying is that there is no proper way to measure a LOP"
There is a proper way and it involves using a Try-Stock fixture which is very expensive. Another proper method involves using a standard stock but adding or removing length until the shooter is fitted. As noted, there is more to fitting a rifle or shotgun properly than just the length.
I can't find my illustration of the top view which would give you a look at cast-off and cast-on. Suffice it to say that cast-off has the butt angle away from the face while cast-on angles towards the face. That's an extremely simple description for the sake of expediency. There are some pretty good basic books on the subject if your interest leans that way.
Best.0 -
Eric,
Try this ...
How to measure your LOP
( length of pull )
* The simplest way is if you have a gun that fits you then measure from the trigger where you put your finger to the end of the buttstock including the buttplate/recoil pad.
* A procedure that will be very close is as follows.
Hold your arm at a 90 degree angle with your trigger finger extended straight, measure from the first joint back from the end of your trigger finger to the inside of your elbow, this will give you a very close measurement as to the LOP you will require.
Good luck.
Ed0
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