Skip to main content
Help Center Community Shop

rock river AR-15, HELP

scottm21166
we went to fire our guns yesterday, for my old friend this is his first AR experience. He bought a rock river elite carbine, NIB
and he bought factory reloaded ammo...(I should say all but the primer problem happened with the factory ammo too)
PROBLEM 1
the gun shoots about 3-4 rounds and all of a sudden you see a big puff of smoke come out of the reciever then he pulls the trigger and you hear the click of the hammer going forward but the shell does not fire. clear the chamber and look at the primer which has a very tiny ding put in a new round and it fires.
PROBLEM 2
the primers are blowing out of the casing and the shell gets stuck and the bolt does not go back. I mean you fire the rifle, and the bolt stays forward not strong enough to pull the empty and the extractor is so tight ...

I shot his ammo in my gun and it worked fine but still blew out some primers (i have the 556 sig)

work on those two cuz there is more to this story.
0

Comments

10 comments

Date Votes
  • sandwarrior
    It sure sounds like a bad batch of ammo. But, since it's new did he ensure that the cosmoline in the bolt carrier was completely cleaned out? That will dampen a firing pin blow to the primer.

    When the primers blow out it means you have a very hot round. I need to ask to double-check if you have chambers for .223 or 5.56? I have seen many AR's with .223 Chambers is why I ask. Firing a 5.56 is too hot to put in a .223 chamber even though they are dimensionally the same. Don't feel bad if you did that though. I did it for years before I fully understood why not to. Just so you know the 5.56 chamber is cut with a longer throat or leade so that the higher pressure won't spike at max pressure. Kind of a timing thing during the ignition cycle of the powder. We're talking microseconds.

    Anyhow, that's a place to start looking into.
    0
  • nmyers
    Your friend may not be smart enough to own a gun.

    If you are shooting and, all of a sudden, a big puff of smoke comes out of the receiver, the LAST thing you want to do is "pull the trigger".

    That's nature's way of tell you, "There's a problem!" You remove the mag, you clear the action, & you go home & figure out what the problem is before you shoot it again.

    At this point, I would detail strip the rifle, clean it thoroughly with my AR cleaning kit, inspect all parts for proper function, & lube & re-assemble it. If your friend isn't familiar with all this, he should buy a copy of Walt Kuleck's "The AR-15 Complete Owner's Guide". If he doesn't have an AR cleaning kit (yes, you need one), he can order it from Brownell's. Then, get back to us & let us know what he finds.

    Neal

    NOTE: RRA used to chamber most guns for .223 Wylde, but it depends upon when it was made; it might help to know what your friend's gun is chambered for.
    0
  • scottm21166
    the ammo he is using is factory reloads mostly LC casings. his rifle is chambered for 223
    I took the bolt out, dissassembed and cleaned and relubed it. I aligned the gas rings off center, it did not make a differenct.

    the expended shells are getting stuck in the chamber and we had to plunge several of them out.
    the extractor will not let go of the case unless you open the gun and pull really hard on the bolt handle. sometimes the case comes out and sometimes it bends the rim when it comes off.

    I can understand the chamber question and it could be why my 556 handled the ammo with no problems...I guess its kinda like shooting a shotgun where you can use 2 3/4 shells in a 3 inch chamber but not 3 inch shells in a 2 3/4 chamber?

    Is it possible there is not enough gas pressure to drive the bolt back? meaning the gas tube is obstructed in some way? or the connection between the tube and the bolt is not tight enough?
    and what about the firing pin? it is free floating.. if it were to far forward when the hammer strikes it would that reduction in travel keep the pin from hitting the primer hard enough to fire the round? it seems like there should be a spring on the pin like other guns
    0
  • sandwarrior
    scottm21166,

    So first you've determined the firing pin is freely moving?

    Did unfired rounds un-chamber freely? If the round chambers freely before firing then won't un-chamber after firing you have a pressure problem. If they won't come out freely then you have a case sizing problem. It has happened before.

    I would chaulk this up to a bad batch of ammo. The fact that even you are still rupturing primers says the ammunition is still too hot. Even for your known 5.56 chamber. I would try a different batch of NEW ammo to see what this does.
    0
  • scottm21166
    quote:Originally posted by sandwarrior
    scottm21166,

    So first you've determined the firing pin is freely moving?

    Did unfired rounds un-chamber freely? If the round chambers freely before firing then won't un-chamber after firing you have a pressure problem. If they won't come out freely then you have a case sizing problem. It has happened before.

    I would chaulk this up to a bad batch of ammo. The fact that even you are still rupturing primers says the ammunition is still too hot. Even for your known 5.56 chamber. I would try a different batch of NEW ammo to see what this does.

    I think the blown primers are causing the smoke and probably a result of bad ammo (I will never buy reloaded ammo for my gun) but
    his rifle had spent casings stuck even when we switched to brand new PMC 223 ammo (though not as often) I have a hunch there is not enough pressure to eject the casings when the primer blows out the back.
    what I don't know if if the rifle is dirty or broken. are the gas tubes ever a problem on brand new guns?
    the other problem is still about the pin not hitting the primer hard enough to fire the round. Could the hammer spring be too weak?
    These rock river guns are expensive (I told him to buy a colt or bushmaster) I told him to get hold of rock river and tell them the problem but I don't think he knows enough about the nomenclature of the rifle to accurately describe the problems or know what they are talking about as they explain how to fix it.
    0
  • quickmajik
    blown primers, usually means bad ammo. a bent gas tube can cause the rifle not to cycle, but charging the rifle would clear the spent case without issue.

    not sure what kind of damage an over loaded cartridge would do, but the cases would probably bulge and stick.
    0
  • sandwarrior
    Rock river is a pretty good manufacturer of the the AR rifle. I had one and it was all it was cracked up to be. The jamming cases in the chamber though says something is wrong. Not that there isn't enough gas going through to cycle the bolt. Has he shotgunned the rifle and checked the hammer spring? Also, has he cleaned the bore/chamber thoroughly? Did he do this before shooting it. (I hope he did but some folks don't think you don't need to.) The jamming is caused by too much pressure. It's just like a bolt action rifle. Shoot a normal round through it and it doesn't take a major force to cycle those bolts either. It should just pop right out if there wasn't enough gas to cycle it. You shouldn't have to struggle with it. those rounds are too hot for some reason. Maybe his chamber/barrel wasn't cut all the way like it was supposed to be

    Edit:

    Getting ahold of Rock River would be a really good thing. Something here isn't right and it needs to be made right. Yes, you could have had bad ammo causing the initial problem. But when you go to known good new ammo and it still does it to a degree then there is something wrong with the rifle. Call RR and/or get the local gunsmith.
    0
  • scottm21166
    yeah there is definately something wrong with the gun. I told him he needs to utilize his lifetime warrantee and sell the other one while it is still NIB. I am the kind of guy who will hold something like this against a company forever, even if they fix it I will never forget it, and there by never own one myself.
    0
  • 11b6r
    Have someone check the headspace. Primers push to the rear, but casing is pushed back onto the primer. (Which is why primed but unloaded cartridge casings will have primers fall out when shot) IF you have the correct ammo for the rifle, and have cleaned the chamber, bolt, etc- STOP shooting it, and get it to a factory authorized repair facility. A fired cartridge case that has to be driven out can be a BIG warning sign.
    0
  • sandwarrior
    quote:Originally posted by scottm21166
    yeah there is definately something wrong with the gun. I told him he needs to utilize his lifetime warrantee and sell the other one while it is still NIB. I am the kind of guy who will hold something like this against a company forever, even if they fix it I will never forget it, and there by never own one myself.


    In fairness to Rock River I would have to say that if that's the way you feel about it, you may end up not ever owning a gun anymore. Every manufacturer has had issues with even their best firearms at one time or another. I had a lot of jams with an M-16A1 made by Colt that I carried for about 6 months. But, I'd still say Colt is one of the best makers of that rifle. So is Rock River.

    I'm thinking about this and as 11b6r noted headspace will do that. What cases fire have tiny dents in the primer? How about the primers that blow out? Small dents as well? The chamber may be too deep. You should be able to see that if you compare a fired case to a new case. Double check as well that it isn't firing out of battery...or before it's locked all the way.
    0

Please sign in to leave a comment.

Recent Activity