Gold Cup help
I have a 70 N.M. Gold Cup. My ambidexterous safety broke after getting home from an introductory IDPA lesson (FANTASTIC!). I have one ordered . Is that something I can change or let local gunsmith? Also , I noticed the barrel bushing (by front site) slides(falls) right off the end of barrel. Shouldn't that be tight ? I thought it was. My normal Govt 70 has a tight bushing and it's not a target gun..
One other thing. Can I put my Gold Cup barrel and slide on my Govt model? slide on slide off [8D]..
IDPA, I love it !!! First time I have ever done anything like that !!!
beep! bang bang lol
One other thing. Can I put my Gold Cup barrel and slide on my Govt model? slide on slide off [8D]..
IDPA, I love it !!! First time I have ever done anything like that !!!
beep! bang bang lol
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I only have replaced one safety on a Springfield 38 Super and it was a little bit of a pain for a first time repair of a weapon. I would really be worried about that bushing unless I am not understanding your discription your problem could be dangerous if the piece is fired. That Gold Cup should be a tack driver, That weapon had a lot of polising and fitting, I would take it to a good gunsmith and have him rework the pistol it will be a great shooter.
Emmett0 -
OOPS, let me describe it differently. The bushing is ok when the gun is assembled.Nothing is wobbling or loose.. It's when I field strip it that I'm concerned. Should the barrel bushing have a tight grip on the barrel to provide better accuracy ? I can not slide the bushing off my GOVT 70 model without pressure.
But if I turn my dissasembled Gold Cup barrel and bushing upside down, the barrel bushing falls off quickly. Hence too loose.
Just stuck a micrometer on the barrels
The Govt 70 barrel is the same diameter all the way.
The Gold Cup barrel gets larger(.020 in) at the end so that the bushing will fit tightly for better accuracy.. I stripped and cleaned the GC 2 months ago. I would have noticed if the bushing didn't grip the barrel tightly.
Oh man I just thought of something. Is my Gold Cup barrel supposed to be the same diameter all the way to the tip? There is such a visible difference that I thought it was made that way ...0 -
quote:Originally posted by skychaser53
I have a 70 N.M. Gold Cup. My ambidexterous safety broke after getting home from an introductory IDPA lesson (FANTASTIC!). I have one ordered . Is that something I can change or let local gunsmith? Also , I noticed the barrel bushing (by front site) slides(falls) right off the end of barrel. Shouldn't that be tight ? I thought it was. My normal Govt 70 has a tight bushing and it's not a target gun.
One other thing. Can I put my Gold Cup barrel and slide on my Govt model? slide on slide off [8D]..
IDPA, I love it !!! First time I have ever done anything like that !!!
beep! bang bang lol
Are you replacing the entire ambi safety or just the right side? I'm guessing the whole thing. There are really two aspects to properly installing a 1911 safety. First is of course ensuring the safety works properly, second is getting the correct "feel" and having the thing function smoothly. Personally I find getting the correct feel is more of a challenge. Best to have a gunsmith do the work if you're not certain of how to do it.
A tight fitting bushing is important, not only how it fits the barrel but how it fits in the slide. Manufacturing tolerances have I think gotten tighter lately, maybe your GC needs a little tune up. I don't know if the Government Model you have uses a collet bushing, that of course always has tension on the barrel.0 -
Hello Lets address the two questions one at a time #1 the safety needs to be fitted so that it will function as designed IE safe when on safe and fire when off safe . I know this sounds silly B when on safe it should keep the sear from moving ANY if improper fitted it can let the safety be set to on you the shooter tug on trigger nothing happens and then because the sear has moved say 90% of the way when you move the safety to ff even without touching the trigger the hammer falls and KABOOM [:(!][V][xx(][:(] or if the safety lug nose is not cut enough it may not let you engage the safety even with the hammer on . [:(].A new safety MAY just drop in and be correct or it may not If you have the old original left side only safety it MAY work. The second Problem with the bushingis NO PROBLEM at all[:)] The series 70 has a bushing with spring fingers on MOST of them this locks the barrel in place when the slide is closed. However it may cause function problems if too tight the GOLD CUPS come both way with and without this type bushing It may have a plain ORE series type bushing in it and Yes the bushing may JUST Fall OFF the barrel .remember the barrel has to tip down to unlock from the slide when the slide cycles. NO you can't change out the barrel and bushing The Gold cup Hood is different You may be able to swap top halfs but I suggest you reflace the safety on the Gold cup or swap pistols if you have another 1911 type one until you get yours PROPERLY fixed.
SKY CHASER .007 is not the end of the world but may be slightly on the loose side, Remember it can't be a snug fit because the barrel Has to tip up and down at the rear to unlock the the slide to barrel locking lugs. A match grade pistol-smith will sometimes cut the bushing so it is .005 larger top to bottom when installed in the pistol then the side to side measurement. I take a surface grinder and grind a Radius about 3/16 of an inch from the muzzle end . I then Hard chrome the last inch of the barrel .005 then open up the bushing and hard chrome the inside of the bushing until it is about .0005 undersize then I diamond lap the bushing until it will just SNICK over the radius ground on the barrel. I don't know what distance you are shooting and don't want to sound harsh But Bulls-eye shooters are looking for 1&1/2 inch groups or less when testing in a machine rest at 50 yards Most Pistols will shoot better then their shooter. if your targets are 25 yards or less and 6 inches in diameter then .007 will not be a factor.0 -
Safety is of up-most importance, so I will have the gunsmith do it. Thanks for pointing out that the sear may or "may not" be engaged properly.
The Colt Cup will remain disassembled until properly fixed.
I don't know enough about my Colts ! [:(]
So my GC barrel is not wore out. [:)]The impression that I have had for months is correct. The GC barrel has 2 OD dimensions. Most of it is .565... About .300 from the tip the OD is .578..
The GC bushing ID is smaller at the Tip... It measures .585... That means I have .007 inch possible play.. Is this in the normal range ? This don't seem right.
The GOVT mdl bushing is a tight fit when it the operating position. Shouldn't the GC do this?0 -
quote:Originally posted by skychaser53
Safety is of up-most importance, so I will have the gunsmith do it. Thanks for pointing out that the sear may or "may not" be engaged properly.
The Colt Cup will remain disassembled until properly fixed.
I don't know enough about my Colts ! [:(]
So my GC barrel is not wore out. [:)]The impression that I have had for months is correct. The GC barrel has 2 OD dimensions. Most of it is .565... About .300 from the tip the OD is .578..
The GC bushing ID is smaller at the Tip... It measures .585... That means I have .007 inch possible play.. Is this in the normal range ? This don't seem right.
The GOVT mdl bushing is a tight fit when it the operating position. Shouldn't the GC do this?
Is the Government model bushing identical to the GC bushing? For a time in the late '70s I believe, Colt manufactured their 1911s with what is called a "collet" bushing - basically a bushing with 3 or 4 fingers that were of much smaller diameter than the barrel, had some "spring" to them and actually pressed against the barrel. I'd imagine this was easier to produce as it required very little if any fitting.
If your GC bushing fits tight when in battery you should be fine.0 -
No the bushings are different ...The Govt bushing has 4 slots that go horizontaly to the trigger side end... It is loose on the majority of the barrel but tight when in position at the end.
I was thinking that if the od of the GC barrel is .007 smaller than the bushing it has too much play.. I will check the battery fit when I get home tonight after work. time to leave
thanks for the help.0 -
A '70 Gold Cup would have come with a collet (slotted) bushing like you describe for your Government Model. People worry about the fingers breaking off and replace them with solid bushings which are a close slip fit. Probably done when the ambidextrous safety was installed.
Don't worry about the bushing.
Unless you are lefthanded, get a single sided thumb safety installed. If you have to ask, it is a gunsmith job.0 -
Here is a good method of testing the proper operation of your safety lock (thumb safety), as well as the other safety features of your 1911 pistols.
After installing the new thumb safety, cock the hammer and engage the safety, then firmly pull and release the trigger. The hammer must not fall. Disengage the thumb safety - the hammer should not fall. Do not touch the trigger again.
The next check is to determine if the thumb safety is holding the sear from partially disengaging from the hammer. After disengaging the thumb safety, place the hammer area of the pistol close to your ear so that you can hear the slightest click when you run this test. With the hammer area of the pistol held close to your ear, pull the hammer to the rear very slightly. Do not touch the hammer at all until you have placed the pistol near your ear. A very slight click when you touch the hammer is the sear jumping back into full engagement with the hammer full-cock hooks, indicating that the safety is allowing the sear to move slightly out of engagement with the hammer. Not safe.
To test the grip safety, first cock the pistol. With the pistol cocked, thumb safety off, and the grip safety not depressed, pull the trigger firmly and release. The hammer should not fall.
Now repeat the "click test." To test for this you run the grip safety test as just described and then place the pistol next to your ear. Touch the hammer slightly to the rear and listen for a click. If you hear a click the grip safety is not blocking the movement of the trigger enough to prevent slight movement of the sear away from the hammer. Not safe. (Do not touch the grip safety during the test and do not touch the hammer until you have placed the hammer next to your ear).
To test the disconnector, cock the pistol. Hold the pistol as you would if your were going to fire the pistol with one hand, finger off the trigger. Place the palm of the other hand squarely on the muzzle and press the barrel and slide straight to the rear as far as they will go. The slide and barrel will move to the rear approximately 1/4" before stopping. Hold the slide and barrel in this position, then place your finger on the trigger and squeeze it, hold it fully to the rear. The hammer should not fall when you return the slide home. Release the trigger - the hammer should not fall. There should be a firm click when you release the trigger, indicating the disconnector is reconnecting with the sear to allow that pistol to be fired again. Now that you have released the trigger and the disconnector has reconnected, pull the trigger again. The hammer should fall.0 -
thanks for the info on how to test the safety. I'll do that after the gunsmith puts the safety in [:)]
I ordered a ambidexterous safety yesterday. I need it because I'm going to be shooting IDPA events. There are events where you have to show with your weak hand.
thx again for the help.0
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