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700 xcr

gbbaker
i just got a mod 700 xcr in a 338 ultra mag.. usally when i guy a gun i take it straight to the gun smith for glass bedding floating the barrel and a trigger job was wondering if i can bed the xcr stock have been told that the stock may be to flexable and crack the bedding
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4 comments

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  • gbbaker
    can anyone help??
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  • nononsense
    gbbaker,

    17 minutes from your first post to the second wondering if we have an answer? Most of us don't live on these forums so it can take a little bit of time for someone to respond.

    With regard to your question:

    The stock in question is a slightly modified Hogue Overmold produced specifically for Remington. As you've already pointed out, the stocks can be flexible in the forearm but that doesn't mean the barreled action can't be bedded. It does take a couple of different techniques to get the job done correctly. The folks putting out the idea that the bedding will crack probably didn't know how to do it right in the first place.

    The plastic being used for these stocks is oily to the touch. It's not really oily but that's what it feels like. So the first problem is figuring our how to get the bedding compound to stick. That means that every surface the epoxy touches has to be be roughed up with sand paper and then degreased thoroughly. In some places, you really need to use a mechanical bonding technique which is as simple as using a small burr with a Dremel tool to make small holes with undercuts in them so the epoxy has something to latch onto.

    Rigidity can be created by using something along the lines of hollow arrow shafts to hollow stainless steel hydraulic lifter rods. These are placed into the forearm and bedded in position. Sometimes you have to create a channel to hold these rods in place so they don't interfere with the barrel.

    Best.
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  • tsr1965
    I am not sure, as I have not had the XCR rifles apart, but I will assume they don't do a damn thing with bedding at the factory. By that I mean a bedding block, bedding epoxy, or having pillars installed like Savage does when the stock is molded.

    If you were to buy a stock from Hogue, you can get it with pillars, or a bedding block. With that said, I would install pillars if it is lacking them, and I use Brownells Steelbed over glass, so I don't have to worry about it crumbling. I know a lot of guys, and many more knowing than I, still like to use the glass. This way it joins the action to the bottom metal when the action lug, and tang screws are torqued to 50-60 inchpounds...yes INCH pounds. This way, the stock is just holding the action, and not having to support it for rigity. After that get rid of the pressure point in the forearm, and free float the barrel.

    EDIT

    That is why the surface and say, perhaps the first millimetet has that oily touch to it. The mold release is a silicone liquid spra, most of the time. When that hot molten polymer hits it, it gasses off,into the surface of the workpiece.

    Nononsense,

    Is that oily feel you are expeeriencing the polymer they use to injection mold the stock itself, or is the compound partly impregnated with the mold release on the surface? I run into that with my 25 WSSM Model 70, Ultimate Shadow. The bedding epoxy did not even come close to staying in the stock, when I took the action out to prep the rifle. The whole blob of epoxy came out stuck to the action lug, and there was still an over abundance of mold release on the stock.

    EDIT 2

    Yes, those injection molded polymer stocks are nothing like a good kevlar/fiberglass overlay stock. However, once the mold is made, they can be shot for very cheap per. They can add the methods above like pillars, and forend rails at will, and for just a few extra pennies, if modular thought was put into the making of the mold. I do have one of the Hogue models with a bedding block for my K77MK II 243 which I have never used, as I put pillars in the skeleton stock.

    Adding reinforcement to the injection molded stocks, when they are making the stock is like adding re-bar and screen to concrete when you are pouring it. However, with some of today's polymers, and elastomers(the over molded gripping surfaces), any added metal work most likely has a temperature activated adhesive coating(we have those very processes at where I work, but just not on rifle stocks)

    I don't really care for the idea of having forearm flex, but that would take a backseat to having the launching platform behind it solidified.

    EDIT 3

    Totally agreed. Thank goodness for inexpensive teaching aids. Them engineers who designed the product, and manufacturing process should have been so fortunate.

    Actually there are some glass filled shootable(fairs well to injection molding) compounds that are rather stiff. But they are harder to manufacture, in that they have less of a tolerence window for the molding temperatures, pressures, and injection times. The process is also very sensative to ambient conditions, with humidity being the big one.

    Best
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  • nononsense
    tsr1965,

    It's the feel of the polymer, it's just like it has a coat of oil on it. It doesn't wipe off and the only way to get the epoxy to stick to it is to rough it up and use acetone as a degreaser. Mechanical locks help, too.

    We used to joke about the 'bedding' that Winchester and some others advertised. It always looked like a wad of hot glue.

    Best.

    ADDED:

    I'll be honest, when this type of stock first came into the market, the reception was good. Obviously, the outside grip and the ease of making the barreled action fit was a big draw. But the flexibility was a noticeable problem and not one addressed by the manufacturer. We took a bunch of these apart to see if the problem was fixable, which it is by the methods above. But the time, labor and materials involved put the whole rifle into a much higher category.

    It's a decision of balance that the client needs to make. Is the original design worth the effort or would the client be better served by buying another stock design.

    Best.

    ADDED:

    "I don't really care for the idea of having forearm flex, but that would take a backseat to having the launching platform behind it solidified."

    While I agree in principle, I was attempting to avoid writing a dissertation on the proper bedding of flexible stocks. The premise should always include the concept of stress-free, primary bedding of the action.

    The reality of this discussion is that the better resolution of this problem as a whole is to simply replace the stock with one having the known qualities for handling and rigidity. It will be cheaper and better in the long run.

    I have used these stocks and some of the other cheap ones from Remington as well as other manufacturers as test problems for students when they are learning problem assessment, problem solving, bedding and diagnosis. This type of stock is a perfect teaching aid, sort of an all-in-one project for bedding corrections. The multiple design and manufacturing flaws provide a tremendous number of possibilities for corrections and solutions to specific problems without making a huge investment in expensive fiberglass stocks.

    Best.
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