Model 11 Questions
Being totaly unfamilar with the Winchester Model 11 why is this unsafe to use? At all or just with modern loads? From the humpback I had believed it was similar to the Browning A5, Remington 11 @ Savage 720. Are the Remington and the Savage safe with modern ammo?
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The Savage and Remington companies bought production licenses to use Browning's patents. Winchester told their designers to go around them, and by doing so they created a very poor gun.
If I recall there is a buffer in these things that goes out and the gun has a tendency to beat itself to death. No parts are available for these guns unlike the others.
It is an interesting historical piece showing just how much of a mistake Winchester made when they told Mr. Browning to hit the road with his shotgun when he wanted a royalty contract instead of a one time payment. FN, and later Remington and Savage were much wiser. Winchester did better with their 1940 model, but the war killed that and they did not have any success until the Model 50.
Dont feel bad that the gun wont like high brass shells, there are more modern designs that wont take high brass shells either.0 -
A lot of them were short chamberes, depending on when they were made. I know of several Browning and FN's that were 16 ga, with a 2 9/16 chamber. I think the 12 had a 2 5/8. A 2 3/4 inch shell would not only not eject because the port is too small, but it could raise pressures, as there were no plastic hulls back then with the crimp. They were paper, with a disc shot cover, and roll crimped with waterglass for a sealer. lots of times the price per shell was marked on the disc before it was placed in the shell.
Hope this helps explain as to why to check the chamber dimensions.
Best0 -
The Model 1911/11 was always chambered for a 2-3/4" shell (never a "short chamber"), but it was designed for the low pressure smokeless shells made back in those days.
As was previously mentioned, it used a recoil buffer, and it was prone to rapid failure. If you were to shoot modern high-pressure shells in it, if the recoil buffer was not already about to fail, it would do so very very quickly.
Simply put, it was a very poor design, but it was the best that T.C. Crossly could come up with and not violate John Browning's patents for the Auto-5. Browning negotiated with Remington a few years after F.N. began building the A-5, and in 1905 they started producing the "Remington Auto Loader", and in late 1910, they renamed it the "Model 11".
The late 1901 meeting between John M. Browning and T.G. (Thomas G.) Bennet was disasterous for Winchester. Bennet (Oliver Winchester's son-in-law) was just too short-sighted, and he did not realize the significance of what J.M.B. had created, and it ruined a very successful 19-year association between Winchester and Browning,.0 -
Another reason why it was unpopular is the operating system requires one to pull the barrel back by grasping the knurled area of the barrel. Apparently, people had a tendency to get body parts in front of the muzzle doing this hence the name "Widowmaker"
OleDuk[:)][:)]0 -
the m11 use to be loaded with the butt on the ground and owners would push the bbl down and let go. sometimes the gun would fire and take their heads off. gun was a piece of crap. 0 -
I still see those at gun shows and while they are a curiosity, I would never put a shell in one...they are fords edsel and pinto wrapped together
an instant wall hanger0 -
Replace the buffer in the Remington. It is there for a reason. 0 -
The Winchester M11 used no friction brakes like the Browning design, the barrel being free-recoiling against only the spring. I bought one needing fore-end repair, and used Gorilla glue for the first time for such a repair, which worked well. When I test-fired it, it held up to trap loads, and then I used quite a few 1 1/2 ounce heavy field loads, to which it also held up. But I was kicked all over the driveway by this monster, as the barrel bottoms out against the fiber buffers at full-whammy.
They are certainly not as user-friendly as most other designs.0 -
remington and savages are safe. shoot away. 0
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