Reloading: Convert milsurp to hunting round?
I'm green to reloading, so forgive me if this is a "stupid" question.
Is there anything wrong with taking live milsurp type ammo, pulling the FMJ bullets, then replacing them with similar-weight and caliber premium hunting bullets?
The point is, this way you could use common cheap Berdan-primed cases, but effectively get nice hunting rounds out of them without major effort or expense.
I've never heard of anyone actually doing this, though it seems sort of plausible. Is this just "crazy talk"?
I can see the potential for safety issues since even similar weight bullets won't necessarily yield identical pressure curves, but couldn't you dump out the military powder, then weigh it and dump back in a lesser charge?
For example, I'd imagine if you reduced the powder charge by 20% in a round like an 8mm but kept the bullet weight similar, then you'd have something that would still be adequate for any medium game, plenty safe, and have less recoil than the military loads.
Obviously, you'd still have to re-zero the load, and chronographing it might be a good idea to figure out trajectories.
Alternatively, you could swap out the powder AND the bullet.
Another though might be to take standard loads then dump out 1/3 of the powder just to make more pleasant shooting rounds (eg for practice, women, or kids).
Has anyone actually done this? Any thoughts on doing it? Any other milsurp "conversions" worth considering?
Is there anything wrong with taking live milsurp type ammo, pulling the FMJ bullets, then replacing them with similar-weight and caliber premium hunting bullets?
The point is, this way you could use common cheap Berdan-primed cases, but effectively get nice hunting rounds out of them without major effort or expense.
I've never heard of anyone actually doing this, though it seems sort of plausible. Is this just "crazy talk"?
I can see the potential for safety issues since even similar weight bullets won't necessarily yield identical pressure curves, but couldn't you dump out the military powder, then weigh it and dump back in a lesser charge?
For example, I'd imagine if you reduced the powder charge by 20% in a round like an 8mm but kept the bullet weight similar, then you'd have something that would still be adequate for any medium game, plenty safe, and have less recoil than the military loads.
Obviously, you'd still have to re-zero the load, and chronographing it might be a good idea to figure out trajectories.
Alternatively, you could swap out the powder AND the bullet.
Another though might be to take standard loads then dump out 1/3 of the powder just to make more pleasant shooting rounds (eg for practice, women, or kids).
Has anyone actually done this? Any thoughts on doing it? Any other milsurp "conversions" worth considering?
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Since you have no way to know what the powder is in the current case the only SAFE way to do it would be to pull the bullet and powder.
Reload with bullet and powder of your choice. Not sure if this is cheeper then just buying a few boxes of new brass and reloading that..........0 -
I have done this in the past using both methods, i.e either replacing the FMJ bullet with a softpoint of the same weight, or dumping the powder completely and replacing with commercial powder.
Got to really inspect the old military brass though, make really sure it's in good shape. No cracked necks and the old military powder is in good shape, not clumped up as a semi-solid mass in the case.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Nwcid
Since you have no way to know what the powder is in the current case the only SAFE way to do it would be to pull the bullet and powder.
Reload with bullet and powder of your choice. Not sure if this is cheeper then just buying a few boxes of new brass and reloading that..........
Point taken about working with "mystery" powder, but how would it be UNSAFE if you reduced the overall powder charge?
In other words, if its safe to fire bullet "A" with "B" grains of powder "X", why would it be UNSAFE to fire a bullet with the same weight as "A" with 30% less of powder "X"? Obviously you don't want to push the envelope, but I'd think even military loads aren't going to be borderline in terms of pressure, and even if you did get a little bit higher pressures, you'd still probably have a margin of safety.
I don't know of any way for the average shooter to directly measure chamber pressures, but as a substitute, you could chronograph the loads and compare them to known loads to get some idea of safety. For example, if your homebrewed loads were significantly slower than factory or milsurp loads with similar bullets and showed no other signs of overpressure, I think you could probably assume they were perfectly safe, regardless of the powder type.
In terms of costs, that depends on what you are paying. If the round is obscure, factory brass can be hard to find or expensive.
As a relevant example, new unprimed boxer-type 8mm cases still cost more each than loaded milsurp 8mm rounds. With the new cases, you'd still have to prep then (eg size, maybe de-burr, etc), then prime them.
I think you'd definitely get cost savings if you reused new brass several times, but there is a "convenience" factor here too. EG, remember, your time is worth money.0 -
If the military FMJ is not showing overpressure signs, your new bullet (as the only change) will not either.
With the same diameter/weight bullet, and the same crimp loaded above the original powder in the original case you should not be altering the pressure.
Pressure should be the same as the original ball configuration..perhaps a "tad" less [pressure] if you're replacing a steel jacketed bullet with a copper jacketed hunting bullet. Best, Joe0 -
quote:Originally posted by beantownshootah
quote:Originally posted by Nwcid
Since you have no way to know what the powder is in the current case the only SAFE way to do it would be to pull the bullet and powder.
Reload with bullet and powder of your choice. Not sure if this is cheeper then just buying a few boxes of new brass and reloading that..........
Point taken about working with "mystery" powder, but how would it be UNSAFE if you reduced the overall powder charge?
In other words, if its safe to fire bullet "A" with "B" grains of powder "X", why would it be UNSAFE to fire a bullet with the same weight as "A" with 30% less of powder "X"? Obviously you don't want to push the envelope, but I'd think even military loads aren't going to be borderline in terms of pressure, and even if you did get a little bit higher pressures, you'd still probably have a margin of safety.
I don't know of any way for the average shooter to directly measure chamber pressures, but as a substitute, you could chronograph the loads and compare them to known loads to get some idea of safety. For example, if your homebrewed loads were significantly slower than factory or milsurp loads with similar bullets and showed no other signs of overpressure, I think you could probably assume they were perfectly safe, regardless of the powder type.
In terms of costs, that depends on what you are paying. If the round is obscure, factory brass can be hard to find or expensive.
As a relevant example, new unprimed boxer-type 8mm cases still cost more each than loaded milsurp 8mm rounds. With the new cases, you'd still have to prep then (eg size, maybe de-burr, etc), then prime them.
I think you'd definitely get cost savings if you reused new brass several times, but there is a "convenience" factor here too. EG, remember, your time is worth money.
There is no danger in pulling a bullet and putting in another bullet of equal weight and the same diameter. I used to make "Mexican match by pulling the 150 grain ball bullet out out of 30-06 and putting a 168 grain Sierra in. I did not reduce the powder charge and never had a problem.0 -
Seating depth should be close and the length of bullet in contact with the rifling should be close not to affect pressure.
It's probably a good idea to reneck size and expand to get proper bullet pull.0 -
beantown: This is an old idea. When I started reloading in the 50's, almost everybody who had access to rudimentary loading equipment tried it. In those days surplus .30/06 ammo was almost, if not, free. So it was irrestable to pry out the bullets and replace them with Silvertips or whatever, and that worked fine (except the primers were still corrosive!). But most guys just filed off the points of the GI stuff and/or cross-hatched the bullets with a hack saw, which didn't work so fine since occasionally the lead core would blow through the jacket and leave the jacket in the barrel! Also, the modified bullets didn't expand on deer very reliably. They also tried pulling the GI bullets and putting them back in backwards with the square, exposed lead, end out. Those shot pretty well and expanded every time but way too fast. All of these experiments were duplicated by the American Rifleman staff back in the olden (some would say "golden") days. If you have access to old copies of the American Rifleman, the Q & A section makes interesting reading! 0 -
I pull the 173gr bullets out of the LC Match in 30-06 and put in 168gr nosler it is the best round that i have come up with for my Ruger 77.My Savage likes the 308 Match but not as well as the 06.The old shooter i get my ammo from said they tryed to put 180gr in them and it was too hot, very much so on a hot day at the range.I say go for it but stay under on your bullet weight and watch for signs of pressure. Some mil.ammo can be a -itch to pull,match is not. 0 -
Not a problem. In fact a lot of ammo companies used to do this. 0 -
ALL of you giving advice to beantown that is ok to pull and replace the bullet over the powder that is in the case should be ashamed of yourselves. You should never do this to a novice who states that
quote:I'm green to reloading, so forgive me if this is a "stupid" question.
Different bullets have different bearing surfaces and different rates of friction, which has an accute effect on the pressures.
Beantown,
There is no such thing as a stupid question.
I would pull the bullet, and put the powder on your lawn for fertilizer, if I used the cases at all. Those might be old enough to have corrosive primers. Military cases are a pain in the butt to start with, when you fire them, and load them you will have to remove the crimp for the primer and uniform the primer pocket. Also something to be aware of is that military cases are usually thicker and have less internal volume than standard commercial cases. That being said, the listed charge weights need to be reduced.
Lastly, for what you are getting, new commercial casings are relatively cheap, and you know what you have. Ask yourself...for the few dollars I am going to save is it worth it to take the chance? It only takes one time for it to happen badly.0
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