Winchester 21 question
The owner is trying to get a factory letter on this gun and he was told this was factory, I have doubts. Did Walter Koluth ever work as an evgraver for winchester in the 50's (im guessing 1950's because of the checkering). I dont ever remember reading his name. Also the trigger plate screw is no longer indexed correctly. Can anyone else gather any info from these pics?
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=123121621
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=123121621
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Never heard of a "Walter Koluth". It looks like it might be factory engraved though (one of the Kusmits?).
I would simply have it researched by Cody to settle the question.0 -
Disclaimer: I only know what I read when it comes to Model 21's!
I assume that the Pistol Grip Cap isn't engraved "GRAND AMERICAN" since it isn't mentioned. My first impression was a Grand American! However, without the pistol grip marking Ned Schwing's Model 21 book does mention that at least one Pigeon Grade Model 21 was ordered with the gold inlays.
So far I can only find John and Nick Kusmit as Factory Engravers during the 50's, no mention of Walter Koluth, but I'm still reading. I wonder if the engraving for this gun was outsourced!0 -
quote:Originally posted by Old-Colts
So far I can only find John and Nick Kusmit as Factory Engravers during the 50's, no mention of Walter Koluth, but I'm still reading. I wonder if the engraving for this gun was outsourced!
Very unlikely! The Model 21 was a Custom Shop gun start to finish, and they took a lot of pride in their work. If engraving was ordered, it was done in house.
That said, there have been a fair number of Model 21s that were engraved after the fact (most were done in an attempt to falsely raise the collector value). Fortunately for us, the records at Cody are quite good for the Model 21.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Bert H.
quote:Originally posted by Old-Colts
So far I can only find John and Nick Kusmit as Factory Engravers during the 50's, no mention of Walter Koluth, but I'm still reading. I wonder if the engraving for this gun was outsourced!Very unlikely! The Model 21 was a Custom Shop gun start to finish, and they took a lot of pride in their work. If engraving was ordered, it was done in house.
That said, there have been a fair number of Model 21s that were engraved after the fact (most were done in an attempt to falsely raise the collector value). Fortunately for us, the records at Cody are quite good for the Model 21.Good points!0 -
quote:Originally posted by Bert H.
quote:Originally posted by Old-Colts
So far I can only find John and Nick Kusmit as Factory Engravers during the 50's, no mention of Walter Koluth, but I'm still reading. I wonder if the engraving for this gun was outsourced!
Very unlikely! The Model 21 was a Custom Shop gun start to finish, and they took a lot of pride in their work. If engraving was ordered, it was done in house.
That said, there have been a fair number of Model 21s that were engraved after the fact (most were done in an attempt to falsely raise the collector value). Fortunately for us, the records at Cody are quite good for the Model 21.
Did'nt Winchester outsource there engraving in the later years? Its a stretch but it could be a post 60 gun that was special ordered with the old style sides. I am tyring to get a serial number from him. another thing that smells funny is that a gun with that much engraving usually never had that "average wood".0 -
If it is a factory high grade, wasn't the stock just above the trigger usually checkered also? The wood is comparable to my Pigeon grade 101's. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by cartod
quote:Originally posted by Bert H.
quote:Originally posted by Old-Colts
So far I can only find John and Nick Kusmit as Factory Engravers during the 50's, no mention of Walter Koluth, but I'm still reading. I wonder if the engraving for this gun was outsourced!
Very unlikely! The Model 21 was a Custom Shop gun start to finish, and they took a lot of pride in their work. If engraving was ordered, it was done in house.
That said, there have been a fair number of Model 21s that were engraved after the fact (most were done in an attempt to falsely raise the collector value). Fortunately for us, the records at Cody are quite good for the Model 21.
Did'nt Winchester outsource there engraving in the later years? Its a stretch but it could be a post 60 gun that was special ordered with the old style sides. I am tyring to get a serial number from him. another thing that smells funny is that a gun with that much engraving usually never had that "average wood".
Right from his auction listing...
Condition: 98%
Case: Fitted leather
Drop in Heel: 2 1/4
Drop in Comb: 1 1/2
Length of Pull: 14 1/4"
Wood Grade: exhibition
Stock Type: pistal grip
Rib Type: solid raised
Barrel Length: 28"
Engraving Gauge/Caliber: Custom Factory
Serial Number: 26752
Type: field, side by side0 -
On your model 21, serial number 26752:
Order Number: G2197
Start Date: 1-22-1953
Stock: pistol grip
Finish: field
Butt: hard rubber
Final Date: 2-3-1953
Hope you have a great day,
The information provided in this e-mail is from the original company ledgers archived at the Buffalo Bill Historical Center. The Cody Firearms Museum of the Buffalo Bill Historical center makes no representations concerning the authenticity of the firearm, its value or the history of ownership. If the content of this e-mail does not match the current configuration of your firearm, please contact the Cody Firearms Museum Record Office. Acknowledging that many firearms have been modified over the years, we will be happy to double-check the entry.
Connie Miller
Assistant Records Specialist/Inventory0 -
Hmmmm, a lot happened to it after it left the factory! 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Old-Colts
Hmmmm, a lot happened to it after it left the factory!
Not at all surprising... the only other gun/model I have seen with a higher frequency of non-original engraving is the Henry Repeating Rifle. The Model 21 has long been a popular target for non-factory upgrades[V].0
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