Colt Bisley: Opinions?
I bought a Colt SAA Bisley model at a gun show in Vermont this weekend and I would welcome any input:
Here are the particulars. Bisley 38/40. SN 2793XX marked on trigger guard, just in
front of the actual trigger loop. It's not on the frame that I can find. That serial number dates it 1906 or
1907 depending on the database you use. It has the patent dates on the left side of the frame: PAT.SEPT.19.1871 JULY2.72 JAN19.75 on two lines. Barrel markings top of barrel COLT'S PT F A MFG Co. There is also the VP inside a triangle on the
left front of the trigger guard. I have seen this stamp before, but I don't know specifically what it means. The
left side of barrel is marked (BISLEY MODEL) 38 W.C.F. On the right side of the frame is stamped on
top of the nickel: D P 42. These look like armorers marks (ie. Denver Police or Department of
Prisons... something like that. I may know more when I get it lettered.) The rampant Colt near the patent
dates is clear and sharp inside its circle.
It's about 80 percent nickel, on top of copper, which I am told is the original (early) style of Colt Nickeling when
the copper was still needed to make the nickel adhere to steel. I probably won't know for sure, however, if it is
factory nickel until I letter it. There is no question it is an early nickel job, though. Most of the wear is on
the rear of the backstrap (like where you rest your hand when the gun is in a holster) and at the usual
holster wear spots. And I may be conservative when I say 80 percent nickel.
It has elephant ivory grips that were represented when I bought the gun as being period but not factory and I wouldn't dispute that. There is one small pin on the left grip up near the hammer. Old repair. The grips are beautifully made, fit the gun perfectly, but with some shrinkage as would be expected. The action is tight as a vault. Bore is bright and shiny with razor sharp rifling.
The "faults" that I can detect (and maybe someone can help me out on these or can let me know what is
correct): I would have expected it to have the serial number on the bottom of the grip frame and on the
frame in front of the trigger guard. There is no serial number in either place and no trace of one ever
being there. The words (BISLEY MODEL) are much less distinct than I would have expected for a factory Nickel
job. And, in fact, when I bought it I assumed that it was a re-nickel. But my engraver (John Adams of Adams
& Adams) was confident that it was a factory nickel job and he really knows these guns.
The only thing I know about the recent history is that the gun lived in Leominster, Ma. in a dresser drawer for the last 40 years.
Paid $1200, so I couldn't go wrong even if it's just a shooter.
I'll be interested to hear what folks from the forum have to add! I have several SAA's, but am not familiar enough with the Bisley to know what I have added to the collection!
I'll try and upload some pictures momentarily if anyone is interested.
Thanks! RPR aka Sirhrmechanic
Here are the particulars. Bisley 38/40. SN 2793XX marked on trigger guard, just in
front of the actual trigger loop. It's not on the frame that I can find. That serial number dates it 1906 or
1907 depending on the database you use. It has the patent dates on the left side of the frame: PAT.SEPT.19.1871 JULY2.72 JAN19.75 on two lines. Barrel markings top of barrel COLT'S PT F A MFG Co. There is also the VP inside a triangle on the
left front of the trigger guard. I have seen this stamp before, but I don't know specifically what it means. The
left side of barrel is marked (BISLEY MODEL) 38 W.C.F. On the right side of the frame is stamped on
top of the nickel: D P 42. These look like armorers marks (ie. Denver Police or Department of
Prisons... something like that. I may know more when I get it lettered.) The rampant Colt near the patent
dates is clear and sharp inside its circle.
It's about 80 percent nickel, on top of copper, which I am told is the original (early) style of Colt Nickeling when
the copper was still needed to make the nickel adhere to steel. I probably won't know for sure, however, if it is
factory nickel until I letter it. There is no question it is an early nickel job, though. Most of the wear is on
the rear of the backstrap (like where you rest your hand when the gun is in a holster) and at the usual
holster wear spots. And I may be conservative when I say 80 percent nickel.
It has elephant ivory grips that were represented when I bought the gun as being period but not factory and I wouldn't dispute that. There is one small pin on the left grip up near the hammer. Old repair. The grips are beautifully made, fit the gun perfectly, but with some shrinkage as would be expected. The action is tight as a vault. Bore is bright and shiny with razor sharp rifling.
The "faults" that I can detect (and maybe someone can help me out on these or can let me know what is
correct): I would have expected it to have the serial number on the bottom of the grip frame and on the
frame in front of the trigger guard. There is no serial number in either place and no trace of one ever
being there. The words (BISLEY MODEL) are much less distinct than I would have expected for a factory Nickel
job. And, in fact, when I bought it I assumed that it was a re-nickel. But my engraver (John Adams of Adams
& Adams) was confident that it was a factory nickel job and he really knows these guns.
The only thing I know about the recent history is that the gun lived in Leominster, Ma. in a dresser drawer for the last 40 years.
Paid $1200, so I couldn't go wrong even if it's just a shooter.
I'll be interested to hear what folks from the forum have to add! I have several SAA's, but am not familiar enough with the Bisley to know what I have added to the collection!
I'll try and upload some pictures momentarily if anyone is interested.
Thanks! RPR aka Sirhrmechanic
0
-
Hello My Bisley has serial on all three places Frame Trigger guard and Grip Frame. The VP is verify proof. Cheers Perry Shooter. 0 -
To the best of my knowledge the highest known Bisley serial number is, or was, 331,916; well before the lowest known serial number (337,816) when Colt started the relocation the trigger guard and back strap serials numbers. So, technically, your Bisley should have serial numbers in all three locations; but I've learned to never say never. Unless there is some evidence that the serial number was removed from the frame, or perhaps an omission by Colt, but that really doesn't seem possible, I can't explain why the serial number might be missing from the frame!
I think we would be very interested in seeing clear high resolution pictures of your Bisley, especially all markings and close-ups of the areas in question.
Is "COLT'S PT F A MFG Co." the complete marking on top of the barrel?
UPDATE 1:
I received your E-mail and the reason I asked about the address is it appears incomplete. The barrel address on a 5 1/2 or 7 1/2 inch barrel Single Action Army or Bisley Model should be:
COLT'S PT F. A. MFG. Co. HARTFORD CT U.S.A.
So, I can't explain why yours isn't as above!
Regarding posting pictures, the tread "Posting Photographs" at the top of this forum discusses posting your pictures. Here's a link:
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=259294
I've found that Photobucket, a free web picture hosting site, works very well for hosting pictures that you want to include in your posts.
If you are still unable to post your pictures, please E-mail me again and I will respond so that you can send them to me.
UPDATE 2:
Here are the pictures that sirhrmechanic sent me of his Bisley.
From the pictures I would say that the Bisley has been refinished as there appears to be dishing around the frame screws and some evidence of buffing of the markings.
The barrel appears to be an original 4 _ inch barrel and the front sight appears correct for that serial number range gun, so without a good picture of the top of the barrel it would be my guess that it originally had the standard 4 _ inch barrel small lettered two line address and the second line of the address has been removed by the buffing process leaving only the first line. The front of the frame might have been buffed heavily enough that the serial number is no longer visible. The backstrap might be a non-Colt replacement or it too had the serial number buffed so that it is no longer visible; it's hard to tell without a hands on inspection.
I can't see the trigger guard serial number well enough to tell if it is proper and original.
PB Picture removed.
PB Picture removed.
PB Picture removed.
PB Picture removed.
PB Picture removed.0 -
From the appearance of the screw holes and joints between frame and triggerguard and frame and backstrap as well as the pitting on the backstrap, the Bisley was rusty and has been heavily buffed.
This would account for missing markings.0
Please sign in to leave a comment.
Comments
3 comments