FFL Liability Question
Hi guys. I have been told that the owner of a store / range here in FL has been sued by the family of a man who bought a gun from them and kept said gun in a locker at the range. One day, the man decided to shoot himself in the head in the parking lot of the store. He was on medication for depression. Assuming that the dealer did everything by the book at the time of the transaction, I call BS. I think it is impossible for this case to have any legs to stand on. What do you think? Any info. from the experts is much appreciated.
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It ain't what we think, it's what the civil court jury thinks. Some of the low life, bottom feeding, back stabbing, lawyers are so good at twisting things, they can make a civil court jury do any thing they want.
Also in civil court trials the rules of evidence aren't as stringent as in criminal trials, and the jury verdict doesn't have to be unanimous.
The way that the plaintiffs lawyers present the case usually to the jury, is to make them think the defendants liability insurance company is going to take the hit. Since everybody hate insurance companies, the jury verdict is a no brainer.0 -
Yes, the FFL probably did absolutely nothing wrong here, and shouldn't be held liable.
But clearly you don't understand how lawsuits work.
Its not about who did what, or what's "right". Its about who has money, and how the plaintiff can "connect" some damages to the money to get at it.
In this case, the plantiff simply alleges that the gun seller "should have known" that the buyer was depressed and suicidal, and that he didn't provide a safe enviroment for shooting, etc. The plaintiff also slimes the defendant in every way possible during trial, and shows the jury the sad and hurting family that the "victim" left behind.
Yes a jury *probably* won't buy that, but you never know for sure when you're going to get a jury full of idiots, gun haters, etc. Defending a case at trial is expensive, not just in terms of money, but also time and emotional angst.
So the plaintiff doesn't actually have to win in court to "win". They just have to create enough of a hassle for the defendant that they prefer to settle than take chances fighting in court.0 -
I was under the impression that there is some kind of screening process for law suits at which the defendant's lawyer can get a "case" thrown out. It makes absolutely no sense to have a jury waste their time on any darn thing a plaintiff's lawyer has the audacity to put on paper. 0 -
Prosecutors have a saying: "You can indict a ham sandwich."
Neal0 -
quote:Originally posted by 7.62x39Lover
I was under the impression that there is some kind of screening process for law suits at which the defendant's lawyer can get a "case" thrown out. It makes absolutely no sense to have a jury waste their time on any darn thing a plaintiff's lawyer has the audacity to put on paper.
As far as civil litigation is concerned, anybody can sue over anything. The plaintiffs land shark lawyers work the cases on a contigenacy/speculative basis, i.e. they only get paid if they win the case. Because of this they wouldn't even get involved, unless the case was a slam dunk as far as they were concerned.0 -
quote:Originally posted by 7.62x39Lover
I was under the impression that there is some kind of screening process for law suits at which the defendant's lawyer can get a "case" thrown out. It makes absolutely no sense to have a jury waste their time on any darn thing a plaintiff's lawyer has the audacity to put on paper.
Having a case tossed out can happen, but its not automatic just because a claim seems improbable. The defendant would have to show bad faith on the part of the plaintiffs, technical violations (eg improper filings, etc), or other irregularities.
So long as the plaintiff can state a valid legal claim for damages (and it doesn't have to be a "good" case), and he has *SOME* evidence to support the claim (it doesn't have to be "good" evidence), then there is no reason to just toss it out.
In this case, I don't see why a claim would get thrown out. The plaintiff alleges (for example) that the defendants storage of guns was negligent and that if he had only been supervising what was going on with loaded firearms on his own property, the "terrible tragedy" never would have happened.
OK, maybe none of this is true or fair, but that's for a jury to sort out after looking at the evidence, not for a judge to decide up front without a trial.0 -
The deceased person's family's lawyer will try to get the FFL's insurance co. to pay up, and settle. I'm sure the range has a big FAT insurance policy and after all, when Insurance companies pay, the money comes from thin air, right?
We need Tort reform and limits on punitive damages. We've needed it for a long long time now. But it'll never happen, because Lawyers are maggots, which pupate into Judges, and if they're lucky, hatch into Circuit Court and SCROTUS Justices...blowflies, FOR LIFE.0 -
How much do you FFL guys pay for liability insurance, and what amount of coverage is good for that? 0 -
Most places and agents suggest a 1M liability umbrella.
In some localities, the folks who rent the buildings may require up to 10M, and demand that they are listed as an insured party in addition to the licensee.
I am a small manufacturer and have a 1M.
It costs about 120 a month.0 -
I would countersue for emotional distress for 10X the amount I was being sued for. Can't sleep because of nightmares, can't work because I'm afraid of this happening again, loss of livelyhood, etc.
Too often the insurance companies are eager to settle and then raise your premiums or drop you. I had to fight with my insurance company because they wanted to settle with a low life even though it was clearly his fault and I insisted that we also sue of court costs and attorney fees.
Finally they agreed to fight up to the limit of my policy and fortunately we won.
Too often, the insurance companies take the easy way out and then everyone ends up paying.0 -
An identical thread is running over in General Discussion so any additional comments can be posted in that forum. 0
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