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Judge Question

Colonel Plink
On another forum, I was called an idiot for this question and told to ask it here, where I would be mocked roundly. So read on and mock away.

Given the length of the Taurus Judge's cylinder, why didn't they engineer the thing to fire the 454, 45 Colt AND 410? It seems like it would be a natural fit.

I'm going to also post this in General Discussion so that nobody misses the chance to mock me.

Thanks in advance.
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Comments

9 comments

Date Votes
  • rufe-snow
    The designers at Taurus knew that the .454 Casull and the .460 S & W were to hotly loaded for the strength of the Judge cylinder. Because of this they specifically designed the chambers with a internal shoulder to prevent idiots from firing these two cartridges in the Judge.
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  • Colonel Plink
    Here's the original question:

    Why isn't The Judge built rated for 454 instead of 45Colt? It's just asinine.

    Is there a quantifiable difference in how I asked the two questions?
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  • tsr1965
    quote:Originally posted by Colonel Plink
    Here's the original question:

    Why isn't The Judge built rated for 454 instead of 45Colt? It's just asinine.

    Is there a quantifiable difference in how I asked the two questions?


    Because they wanted it to be consealable, and portable. The only thing they have big enough to handle the 454, and that was only half a$$ed, was the Raging Bull. It is a big gun, and much more frame than needed for the 45 Colt or 410.

    Why not ask S&W, why they don't design an X frame 460 XVR for the 410?

    Best
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  • cussedemgun
    Colonel,

    The Taurus Judge is designed to serve a duel purpose. Unfortunately most owners are quick to learn it falls short qualifying at either.

    The Judge already with it's long cylinder is too bulky to carry easily for personal defense. To increase both frame & cylinder mass enough to contain the 454 Casull would only further remove from a carry gun.

    Owners are finding the Judge's accuracy seriously lacking. It lacks any usefulness of a shotgun beyond 12 feet due to the short barrel & rifling. A hand full of rocks is more effective beyond 15 feet.

    I personally saw one Judge tested in a machine rest. With 45 Colt at 25 yards, it shot a pattern 3 FEET in diameter. Not an adequate hunting arm so the 454 cartridge would be superfluous.

    In short, to chamber the 454 Casull would add nothing for the usefulness of the "aardvark". It would make it much heavier & about twice the price! Imagine their "raging bull" with a longer cylinder.
    Seriously, would you buy one, & WHAT FOR? only the COOL (B.S.) factor?

    Jim
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  • perry shooter
    If someone is not a design engineer . Then I think THIS is valid question. However one may not be a design engineer and yet be very experienced with shooting many different hand guns. They would most likely learn very quickly that the smaller&lighter the pistol the harder the recoil. They would also understand that the pistol would have to be built Larger Stronger for a more powerful cartridge. IMHO many people don't understand all things about fire-arms and question asked on these forums are a great place to learn. All of us get a little carried away at times with our answers.
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  • gunpaq
    The Judge is the best darn farm implement devised by mankind. Too bad I cannot write it off as a farm expense. It the best rat killer I have used.

    Seriously, other than rats, its probably used best as the last line for defense stored next to your bed...........highly effective.
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  • beantownshootah
    quote:Originally posted by Colonel Plink
    On another forum, I was called an idiot for this question and told to ask it here, where I would be mocked roundly. So read on and mock away.

    Given the length of the Taurus Judge's cylinder, why didn't they engineer the thing to fire the 454, 45 Colt AND 410? It seems like it would be a natural fit.

    I'm going to also post this in General Discussion so that nobody misses the chance to mock me.

    Thanks in advance.


    Its not a stupid question.

    Quick answer is that .454 Casull operates at 65,000 PSI.

    That's double the pressure of typical magnum loads (which are already operating at double the pressure of .410 shotgun loads) and its enough to literally blow ordinary revolvers to pieces.

    If you want a gun for .454 it has to be specialty built to handle the rifle-like pressures, requiring significantly extra mass and manufacturing cost. Now you're taking a gun that is supposed to be semi-portable, and making it much less so.

    Meanwhile, .454 Casull is already more gun than the average shooter wants. Put a round like that in a medium-framed gun, and its going to be *WAY* more gun than the average shooter can handle.

    Remember, before the "Judge" was the "Judge", it was just a numbered and not all that popular revolver in Taurus's lineup.

    Next issue is that the long chamber length and shallow rifling of the "Judge" probably mean that you're not going to get good performance (accuracy) from the round, even if you could chamber it in that gun, again largely defeating the purpose of the .454.

    Edit:
    Incidentally, I'm no fan of the "Judge" revolvers (and yes, I have tried one). In my opinion, they are largely novelty pieces with a good marketing campaign behind them and they are NOT a good choice for serious defense, target shooting, or hunting. Quite a bit more on that here:

    http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=468165
    http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=443252

    Edit #2. The "Thunder Five" revolver was the precursor to the Judge in that it was a revolver that also shot .45LC/.410 shotshell. It had a lousy double-action pull, bad distribution, and only lasted on the market for a short period of time. I think there were some small number of these with unfluted cylinders made in .45/70, which, as mentioned, is a pretty monstrous round to be fired from a normal-sized handgun.

    If all you need is something to bust snakes, then get this American derringer in .45LC/410. Two shots is plenty for that, plus unlike the Taurus, you can actually slip this thing easily into your pocket. Used ones run about $350:

    http://www.amderringer.com/m1.html
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  • Wolf.
    Many years ago, there was a long-cylindered handgun, if you want to call it that, which was chambered in .45-70 Gov't, too.

    It was/is an ugly POS and served no useful purpose beyond being an oddity and a conversation piece. My personal feelings are that the Taurus Judge falls into that category. The gun ain't much and there are much better personal defense weapons than the Taurus Judge. A pointed stick immediately comes to mind. Seriously, however, a small .380acp or a S&W J-frame .38 Special are, I believe, better choices. S&W makes some very nice small steel and lightweight alloy guns in .357 Magnum, too. I, personally do not recommend Taurus.
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  • turdsmoker
    quote:Originally posted by Wolf.
    Many years ago, there was a long-cylindered handgun, if you want to call it that, which was chambered in .45-70 Gov't, too.

    The pistol Wolf is referring to was called the Thunder Five and manufactured by MIL, Inc.

    http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=205801599
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