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1940? Walther PPK w/holster

Cbuzzy
I love the internet. Can you imagine trying to find some of this information 15 or 20 years ago? Having said that I need some info on this pistol that I have. My dad brought back a ton of stuff from the war during his time in the service and this was one of the pieces. It is a Walther PPK 7.65 cal. with a serial number of #311659. It has the eagle/N on the slide and barrel with the Eagle/cross/C behind the trigger and under the mag release. The holster has two stamps on the leather under the flap as shown in the photos. One is a bearskin/oakleaf with the number 9 and 1942 and the other is an Eagle/swastika over WaA938. On the inside of the holster is an ink stamp reading "Mauser 7.65 cal" which made me think that at one time the pistol had been put in the wrong holster but the serial number of the pistol is stamped into the leather of the holster on the back side (see photo). I also have both clips but not sure if they were issued with the pistol as they are not nuumbered and have two different finishes. One polished and one with a parkerized finish. Take a look at the photos and give me your opions on the condition and value.

Thanks

http://s1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff405/Cbuzzy/
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Comments

7 comments

Date Votes
  • rufe-snow
    Excellent pictures. Unfortunately the pitting on the slide is a bummer. Cosmetics is a big thing to collectors, and the condition of the slide would have a very adverse affect on value. It appears your dad had stored the pistol in the holster for quite awhile.

    Police proofed PPK is very desirable piece for a collector, so desirable you might find one willing to buy it for professional restoration purposes.

    As with the rest of the economy collectors type guns are in the toilet now, unless their factory original excellent condition or dirt cheap. I would sit on the PPK until hopefully things turn around money wise. The way it stands now I don't see it being a big buck collectors item because of it's condition. Maybe $400 to $600 to a newby who doesn't know any better and would be happy to have it as a representative piece in his collection, no matter the condition. My 2?.
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  • 1KYDSTR
    Excellent pictures indeed. I agree with Rufe for the most psrt, although I think desireability may overcome condition, and perhaps common sense...times are indeed tough though. The holster damage has turned a near mint gun into about a 70 percenter...damnedable acid tanned hide anyway! The pre-Nazi, Eagle N's are uncommon, and WaAmpts look correct, and the grips are correct Brown. I would assume the holster was issued to the gun later on in it's issue life, as it IS Nazi-proofed, and post factory stamped with the pistols serial number. Although marked with a different caliber, the frame sizes on the PP and PPK's were similar enough they would interchange. THese holsters are an area of study unto themselves and I will leave it to someone knowledgeable in that field to further elucidate. Love to see what else the old boy dragged back with him!
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  • rufe-snow
    quote:Originally posted by 1KYDSTR
    Excellent pictures indeed. I agree with Rufe for the most psrt, although I think desireability may overcome condition, and perhaps common sense...times are indeed tough though. The holster damage has turned a near mint gun into about a 70 percenter...damnedable acid tanned hide anyway! The pre-Nazi, Eagle N's are uncommon, and WaAmpts look correct, and the grips are correct Brown. I would assume the holster was issued to the gun later on in it's issue life, as it IS Nazi-proofed, and post factory stamped with the pistols serial number. Although marked with a different caliber, the frame sizes on the PP and PPK's were similar enough they would interchange. THese holsters are an area of study unto themselves and I will leave it to someone knowledgeable in that field to further elucidate. Love to see what else the old boy dragged back with him!



    No offense 1KYDSTR, but there is a big difference in a 70% pistol that is caused by heavy usage and holster wear, then one the is 70% because of rust induced pitting. Although there will be definitely a loss in value in the in the first instance, collectors would much more likely buy it then if it's pitted, i.e. much more readily sellable.
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  • 1KYDSTR
    None taken Rufe! I agree with your valuation, I just feel the superior mechanical condition on this gun over a work-worn 70 percenter would rather tend to equalize the desireablity between the two pieces considered. I also base that on the fact there seems to be no areas of pitting other than the one side of the slide. I am wrong often enough...this could easily be one of those cases!
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  • tsr1965
    quote:Originally posted by 1KYDSTR
    None taken Rufe! I agree with your valuation, I just feel the superior mechanical condition on this gun over a work-worn 70 percenter would rather tend to equalize the desireablity between the two pieces considered. I also base that on the fact there seems to be no areas of pitting other than the one side of the slide. I am wrong often enough...this could easily be one of those cases!


    As this will be/would have been a collector, CONDITION is everything. Most serious collectors of this kind of stuff only buy high 90% stuff, and up. It does not matter weather it is an honest work worn 70%, or an overall finish of 70% because of rust. 70% is 70%...PERIOD.

    That said, as rarity is a precluding factor, and not an aweful lot of these are about, the collector is most apt to try to low ball something like this, and get it restored himself, as that way he can dictate how it was restored.

    Very nice photo's, but I think the amount of restoration needed here is well beyond the KRIOL and burlapp stage, so the selling price would reflect that.

    Best

    EDIT 1:

    1KYDSTR,

    While I do have a high end %condition collection, I also have a shooter collection. I am not sure which is more pleasurable. However, as most of the high end specimens are not exactly rare, I do fire all of them from time to time.

    Best
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  • 1KYDSTR
    I am standing corrected...I value your guys opinions and as I am something of a low end comparison collector ( I just love to have shooting specimens...very few safe queens in my collection!) and like to have shooters rather than droolers! That pistol, in my case, would be a great addition as it would get shot, and condition would begin to suffer and decrease value! TSR: What would you value the gun and holster at in todays market?

    I have a refinished 1913 J.P. Sauer and Son .32acp vest pocket I picked up a number of years ago for a couple hundred...thought it was interesting and the parts numbers all matched, so I went for it. Turns out it is a type one, English export. I have only found one other out a Cody. Books list $400 to $1750 so I assumed it to be worth about $400 because of the refinish. I have been offerred (pretty recently too) $1000 for the gun. I will keep it, because of it's rarity. The guy wanting it? One of the bigger Sauer Collectors in the U.S. Why would he pay that much for it? He say's it is likely the only specimen he would be able to locate, and when you have all 9 variations already, that one hole is a big one to fill!

    Anyway, as mentioned, I defer to you two guys...you have excellent knowledge of the market place and collecting in general. I just wanted to point out that sometimes, though rarely, an extant rare example will outperform the expected market due to either a collector needing ANY example of a particular gun, or the hard core rarity determining it's saleability. Best!
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  • gary wray
    Cbuzzy.....I echo the comments on your photos. Too often on ATE we either get no photos or photos one has to squint to examine...yours are super! As too the PPk, you have been told by Rufe and others what it is....police marked (C) with commerical proof (N) so it is not that rare. Condition is everything and it has some metal condition issues as has been pointed out so not much collector interest but what do you care...it was your father's "liberation!" The holster was originally for a Mauser HSc as it is a Type II with the Albrecht Kind leaf-bearskin design. Albrecht Kind was in Berlin and Nurnberg and also had the D.R.G.M. trademark with the "Akah" surmounted by a wreath and crossed rifle emblem. But the Type II holster could take most any small pistol other than the HSc so it is common to see PPk's, PP's, Sauer 38H's and others in these holsters. It, too, has severe condition issues to its cowhide. These pistols make wonderful CCarry pistols if you are interested in that and are good little shooters....I know from personal experience. As far as value, as you have been told the market today is in the tank so now is not the time to sell. As the guns sits now, in its present condition, I think Rufe has it about right as to value..but remember the grips could be worth as much as $250-300 and the mags at least $50+ per so you are looking at upwards of $400 just for parts...and the numbers match! The holster in this condition is worth perhaps $100 tops. Thanks again for your question and hope this helps[:)]
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